Low yield well solution.

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slowgsr

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Last summer I successfully ditched my old 2 line jet pump and replaced it with a submersible in a flow indcuer, added a CSV and a cycle sensor. The system works flawless, no more noisy pump, and constant pressure.

Its in a 30" bored well. About 55 feet deep, at the time static water was at 49 feet but it varies greatly with time of year. I put the pump 2 feet of the bottom, the flow inducer has a T on the bottom to avoid sucking up sand, bit the water is very clean.

Twice since my well has ran dry, it does always replenish but I would like to avoid this. My thoughts.

I use about 50-65 gal per day according to my softener. The static level and gpm of the well varies greatly during the year.

Pump Into an storage tank in my basement, i have the room and already have a 250 gallon tank rated for potable water. Pump it at 1gpm using a dole valve, running the pump x12 per day (every 2 hours) for 6-7 minutes as needed to keep the float switch up in my storage tank, I would have the float switch trigger a solenoid to fill the tank and the CSV would just keep the pump running at 1gpm for the 6-7 minutes until the timer cuts the 24v to the solenoid. Then as long as the float is still down it would continue to fill. The only benift to this is, I could use the well to supply my home the same time it fills the tank during high water table levels.

Then id use a grundfos booster pump to feed the Home from the storage tank. I would have the option during high or low water table times when my well yeild changes to feed via storage or pump direct. It would also be very easy to feed my outdoor hoses from the booster at all times.

Would anyone like to critique this idea? Looking for constructive feedback.

Idealy this summer I was going to dig and put in a 3000gal cistern so in case of long term dry well I could truck in water, however in 10 years that I've been here the water yeild has been consistent.
 

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Glad you like your Cycle Stop Valve. You can control the booster pump the same way. The same CSV1A, pressure tank/pressure switch you have controlling the well pump can also control the booster pump just as "flawlessly". The CSV as comes in the PK1A complete kit can control any brand of jet pump as well as submersible pumps. Grundfos makes a good jet pump in the JP series, which the PK1A works well with. Don't go for the variable speed Scala or the flow switch controlled MQ though, use the JP series jet pump. Or better yet, put a regular submersible well pump in the cistern and control it with the CSV the same way. The submersible will be quiet, since you mentioned that already.

I have drawings of how to install all this about three different ways. I will post them in the morning.
 

slowgsr

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I was going to install a grundfos MQ but haven't purchased anything yet. I may just wait and dig for a 3000 gal cistern in the spring. That way I can put a submersible in it like I did in my well as you mentioned.

Your drawings I'm interested to see, the submersible, plus another CSV, setup does get costly, vs a grundfos MQ pump, but I've always had the mindset do it once, do it right. Luckily I have equipment and can do all of the work myself.
 

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If you want to be able to use water directly from the well as well as from the storage tank and booster pump you can set it up like this.

LOW YIELD WELL_and storage with two PK1A one pipe.jpg
 

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If you want to pump directly from the well pump to the cistern, then use the booster pump to supply everything as needed, you can set it up like this using a jet pump as a booster and a PK1A to control it.

LOW YIELD WELL_ CENTRIFUGAL_PK1A.jpg
 

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If you want to use a submersible in the cistern to supply everything as needed you can set it up like this. You can get a 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark pump for 140 bucks, then add the PK1A kit for $395.00 and you will have something that will last a long time and works better than any of the "all in one" units and much better than the variable speed stuff.

LOW YIELD WELL_SUB_PK1A.jpg
 

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The all in one units like the MQ and the variable speed stuff end up in the dumpster very quickly, which is the point. A standard pump with a CSV to control it can last 30-40 years or more. The stuff you see advertised the most like the MQ will also cost you the most, as they are not designed to last very long.

MQ pumps in dumpster.JPG
 

slowgsr

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Hi. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

My 300gal storage tank is large enough I could setup a submersible on a flow indcuer and just drop it in the tank to get the system setup and working, and in the future when I do dig and put in an outdoor cistern I could just transfer the pump to that, I will go that route.

Do you see an issue using a timer to run the well pump say 5 minutes per hour through a 1gpm dole valve to fill the storage providing the float is calling for water? I could have it turn the filling on and off by control the flow with a solenoid valve.

I could just put a set of manual bypass valves in to control flow directly to the house for months of high water table/yield periods.
 

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Yes that would work. But you already have a Cycle Sensor, so it is much easier than that. The Cycle Sensor has a timer that can be set for the amount of time needed for the well to recover. All you really need is for the pump to run at least one minute when it comes on. You can pump wide open, without restricting with a Dole valve or a ball valve, as long as the pump runs a minute before the well is dry. Then you set the timer in the Cycle Sensor to let the well recover long enough for the pump to run one minute again. If the timer has to be set for longer than 30 minutes to do this, then you may want to restrict the flow with a ball valve to make the pump run for one minute. You may only have to restrict the flow to 5 GPM or so. You can also set the timer in the Cycle Sensor for an hour or longer if needed.

I am not very familiar with dug well, but they should function the same as a drilled well. Any low producing well will deliver more water if you can keep the down hole pressure low. In other words a well can fill quicker when the water level is low. When the well is full, the water cannot come in as fast. With a 55' deep well full of water, the pressure at the bottom is 23 PSI pressure. It is much easier for water to flow into the well when it is empty and no pressure at the bottom than it is when full and there is 23 PSI in the well. So, to get the most production from a low producing well you need to keep it pumped down as much as possible. Let the pump draw the well all the way down and the Cycle Sensor will shut it off on low amps. Then set the Cycle Sensor timer just long enough for the pump to run one minute the next time it comes on. This may cause the Cycle Sensor to turn the pump on and off several times before the storage tank is full and the float switch keeps the well pump from coming back on.

Now if pumping the well all the way down causes dirty water, then by all means restrict the flow enough to keep the water clean. But if the water stays clean as the well is pumped down and allowed to refill over and over, you will get much more water out of the well than when restricting it to 1 GPM and letting it run as long as needed or possible.
 

slowgsr

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If you want to be able to use water directly from the well as well as from the storage tank and booster pump you can set it up like this.

View attachment 69623
I am in the process of setting it up like this.

I got a submersible, I'll build a flow indcuer like what's in my well. I'll put this in my basement storage tank (300gal). I have the fill float and the solenoid, I'm going to use an intermatic din rail timer to fill the tank for 1-5 minutes per hour, every hour the float has dropped to produce about 60 gal of water per day, I've been monotoring my softener usage and at the very most I use 50 gal per day, sometimes only 25.

I pick up my fittings on Monday, just have to order the CSV.

I'm thinking 95% of the time my well will keep up, as it always has, but if I wash the car, or the softener does a regen then in rare instances it's ran dry.

If I'm reading this drawing right, I can set the pressure switch cut in slightly lower on the tank pump then the well, so if my well is not dry the lowest pressure will always be above my tank pressure switch, but in case of a dry condition, pressure drops of and the tank pump will kick in, check valves prevent the water from flowing back the wrong way, I can delay the well pump for a long enough period to fill up again and once it does, that pressure switch will automatically take back over again once water is re-established, and it will slowly start refilling the tank at a slow rate.

If I feel like using up some of the tsnk water, I could just turn off a isolation valve if I want to let the softener do a regen, etc.

Am I understanding this right?
 

Bannerman

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I've been monotoring my softener usage and at the very most I use 50 gal per day, sometimes only 25.
FYI, the water the softener uses for regeneration, is not normally included in the water usage quantity reported by the softener.
 

slowgsr

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FYI, the water the softener uses for regeneration, is not normally included in the water usage quantity reported by the softener.
Yes I know, my display always tells me gallons left until next regen, and i usually check in the mornings. I'm unsure exactly how much it uses during a regen, a good amount.
 

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Again, yes that would work. But you already have a Cycle Sensor, so it is much easier than that. Just let the Cycle Sensor do the work and set the timer in the Cycle Sensor for enough to let the well recover.
 

Tim Schulace

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Cary,
Spoke with a gal in your shop today who was very helpful as we were discussing how best to deal with a low yiled well. I stumbled on this forum post and Voila! here you are talking about the very same thing.

Anyway, my question to you is - how would the above proposed setups differ if there were a shared well? I think I'd like to have individual cisterns in each house, but I'm guessing that would require two cycle sensors, two floats, two everything or could the controls be in one house (with floats in both)?

Thank you
 

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One fill pump for the cistern only requires one float switch and one Cycle Sensor. Doesn't matter how many house you supply with the cistern pump.
 
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Tim Schulace

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One fill pump for the cistern only requires one float switch and one Cycle Sensor. Doesn't matter how many house you supply with the cistern pump.
Thanks, Cary.
I think I didn't explain myself clearly (or I'm slow to understand your response). One pump, two cisterns. So I'd need floats for both cisterns, yes? But only one cycle sensor since there is only one well pump. Am I on the right track?
 

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How far apart are the cisterns vertically and horizontally? Teed together they act like one cistern. In different locations you need two float switches controlling two separate solenoid valves. But still only one Cycle Sensor.
 

Tim Schulace

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How far apart are the cisterns vertically and horizontally? Teed together they act like one cistern. In different locations you need two float switches controlling two separate solenoid valves. But still only one Cycle Sensor.
Exactly. Thanks.
The houses (and the cisterns) are several hundred feet apart with the well located between the houses. So since I'm running power to the submersible pump in the well, can i wire the Cycle Sensor so that it sits near the well? That way both users could access it. Obviously I would have to protect it from the elements (you might have suggestions on how to do that), but I don't know if it needs to be in a temp regulated environment.
 

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The Cycle Sensor comes with a Nema 4X enclosure you could run through a car wash it seals so well. It can also be first off the breaker before the wires go to the pump.
 
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