Katalox Light AIO vs non AIO

[Corn Pop]

I have a chlorination/dechlorination system. Soda ash injection -> Chlorine injection -> contact tank -> carbon -> softener. I’m removing 12ppm of ferrous iron. The issue I’m having is some ferric iron is making it through the carbon filter. I’m assuming from turbidity from the contact tank.

I have soft water from the well already so I’m converting my softener to a Katalox Light filter and can’t decide between AIO and without. I like the idea of non AIO if it will work since it’s less maintenance (cleaning injector etc.)

Any help or ideas would be much appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

Does your contact+settling tank have a blow-off valve to let you blow out sediment? Maybe consider at tank to let the sediment settle, and get blown out.

Note that KL takes a lot of backwash. A 10 inch softener backwashes with 2.4 gpm, and KL in a 10 inch tank needs about 8 or 9 gpm. A Fleck 5600 cannot do that.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Corn Pop]

Does your contact+settling tank have a blow-off valve to let you blow out sediment? Maybe consider at tank to let the sediment settle, and get blown out.

Note that KL takes a lot of backwash. A 10 inch softener backwashes with 2.4 gpm, and KL in a 10 inch tank needs about 8 or 9 gpm. A Fleck 5600 cannot do that.

8 or 9 on a 10” tank? Here is a link to the different medias and flow/ backwash rates.

Backwash and Flow Rates of Filter Media – Pure Water Products, LLC

An overview of the flow rates of various filter media, including: activated alumina, anthracite, birm, calcite, corosex, filter Ag, garnet, granular activated carbon, KDF 55, KDF 85, manganese greensand, MTM, multimedia, pyrolox and sand.

www.purewaterproducts.com

Also here are 2 screen shots. I have a WS1 anyways I should be good. My supplier sent a 6gpm DLFC. Thats what they use on all their Katalox set ups.

 

[Reach4]

Expect your KL to cake up at that level. I would like to see about 35% bed expansion.

Need help with Water System

I'm on a private well with a iron removal and water softener treatment. We still get red tint on shower walls/toilet bowls. Had the water tested and here are the results: Raw Water: TDS: 713 Hardness: 40 Iron: 2.5 Nitrates: Yes (no level given but a test back in 2015, level was 0.2)...

terrylove.com

Also, you don't want to keep the top basket in place. It will gunk up. See #32 and #33 of https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/change-fe-filter-to-katalox.81045/page-2

 

[Corn Pop]

Expect your KL to cake up at that level. I would like to see about 35% bed expansion.

Need help with Water System

I'm on a private well with a iron removal and water softener treatment. We still get red tint on shower walls/toilet bowls. Had the water tested and here are the results: Raw Water: TDS: 713 Hardness: 40 Iron: 2.5 Nitrates: Yes (no level given but a test back in 2015, level was 0.2)...

terrylove.com

Also, you don't want to keep the top basket in place. It will gunk up. See #32 and #33 of https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/change-fe-filter-to-katalox.81045/page-2

Hey you know more than I do. I’m still learning lol. What size Dlfc would you recommend? I did order the air blocker that clack offers. Would you recommend that? A lot of people don’t use it. Clack also offers a deflector that some use on AIO set ups part #D7147. I had another person say he doesn’t even use the check valve in the inlet of the valve as well. Yikes!

 

[Reach4]

I don't know about the air blocker.

What temperature is your backwash water? I would tend toward 8 gpm, and you have to make sure the drain line and pump can support that flow.

If converting a a softener, I would consider having an oxidant, such as a chlorine bleach solution, get involved in the regen. My iron+H2S filter does not us KL, but it does use a bleach solution.

The mushroom deflector would be good.

Search for more posts on this. I might have some suggestions later.

 

[Bannerman]

My supplier sent a 6gpm DLFC. Thats what they use on all their Katalox set ups.

The recommended Backwash rate for Katalox Light media is 10 -15 gpm per square foot of cross section, so for a 10" diameter tank, that calculates to be 5.4 (minimum) to 8.1 (optimal) gpm. This flow range is suitable for 20 to 30% bed expansion, but as suggested, further increasing the backwash flow rate somewhat could acheive 35% expansion with no negative issues resulting.

Due to the heavy, sticky nature of ferric iron residue created when converting ferrous iron to a ferric state, there will be an immediate benefit to using the higher backwash rate when posssible, to ensure the iron residue including that trapped within the media near the bottom of the tank, will be released and discharged as rapidly as possible.

Clack also offers a deflector that some use on AIO set ups part #D7147.

That is an 'Umbrella' deflector which will be approproate for your KL media filter tank. It will mount onto the riser tube, within the 'freeboard' space between the control valve and the top of the media. The umbrella delfector will deflect the incoming water stream across the diameter of the tank above the media, instead of permitting the straight downward stream to errode a deep depression into the media directly below.

Although a standard upper media screen basket will also function as a deflector, an upper basket should not be utilized in an iron reduction filteration system as the ferric iron residue will accumulate on the media side of the screen during BW, thereby reducing or preventing backwash flow from passing through.

I had another person say he doesn’t even use the check valve in the inlet of the valve as well

An AIO system requires a check valve as the air pocket at the top of the media tank will be compressed to equal pressure as supplied from the well system.

Any water drawn before the pump is activated, will cause the well pump's pressure tank pressure to be reduced by 20 psi. Without a check valve at the inlet to an AIO system, the compressed air within the media tank will expand and flow backward out from the filter tank, into the supply piping before the AIO control valve.

 

[Corn Pop]

The recommended Backwash rate for Katalox Light media is 10 -15 gpm per square foot of cross section, so for a 10" diameter tank, that calculates to be 5.4 (minimum) to 8.1 (optimal) gpm. This flow range is suitable for 20 to 30% bed expansion, but as suggested, further increasing the backwash flow rate somewhat could acheive 35% expansion with no negative issues resulting.

Due to the heavy, sticky nature of ferric iron residue created when converting ferrous iron to a ferric state, there will be an immediate benefit to using the higher backwash rate when posssible, to ensure the iron residue including that trapped within the media near the bottom of the tank, will be released and discharged as rapidly as possible.



That is an 'Umbrella' deflector which will be approproate for your KL media filter tank. It will mount onto the riser tube, within the 'freeboard' space between the control valve and the top of the media. The umbrella delfector will deflect the incoming water stream across the diameter of the tank above the media, instead of permitting the straight downward stream to errode a deep depression into the media directly below.

Although a standard upper media screen basket will also function as a deflector, an upper basket should not be utilized in an iron reduction filteration system as the ferric iron residue will accumulate on the media side of the screen during BW, thereby reducing or preventing backwash flow from passing through.


An AIO system requires a check valve as the air pocket at the top of the media tank will be compressed to equal pressure as supplied from the well system.

Any water drawn before the pump is activated, will cause the well pump's pressure tank pressure to be reduced by 20 psi. Without a check valve at the inlet to an AIO system, the compressed air within the media tank will expand and flow backward out from the filter tank, into the supply piping before the AIO control valve.

Wow very informative. I appreciate the explanation! I never thought about the pressure draw down while the filter is in regen. Going back to my original question. Do you think I should convert it to AIO or stay with non AIO? Also what do you think about the D1047 Clack air blocker for AIO valves?

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't know about the air blocker.

What temperature is your backwash water? I would tend toward 8 gpm, and you have to make sure the drain line and pump can support that flow.

If converting a a softener, I would consider having an oxidant, such as a chlorine bleach solution, get involved in the regen. My iron+H2S filter does not us KL, but it does use a bleach solution.

The mushroom deflector would be good.

Search for more posts on this. I might have some suggestions later.

As I mentioned in my original post I’m using chlorine injection with contact tank so that will be my oxidant. Also I have a constant pressure pump set at 60psi. Water temp is around 55 degrees. 340 deep well. What media do you use in your iron filter and what levels of iron are you working with?

 

[Reach4]

My media is Centaur Carbon, and only 0.4 ppm iron. H2S was my main motivation. So 5 gpm is enough backwash with my 10 inch tank.

During backwash, monitor the pressure to see that it maintains at least 30 psi. Maintaining 40 or 60 is not needed to get backwash if the drain line is low backpressure. Also, if your drain line is 1/2 inch and/or a bit long, consider increasing to 3/4 inch. The pressure that matters as to whether you can maintain 8 gpm is the differential between the input and drain line. Backpressure on the drain line can make the backwash weaker.

When programming a Fleck valve, I would tell the valve that this is a softener and not a filter. In the Fleck valves, there is a different piston for use in filter-only. For brine fill, I would just plug the port, and maybe set the fill time to 1 minute. Maybe zero works. I don't know.

 

[Bannerman]

Do you think I should convert it to AIO or stay with non AIO?

The purpose for AIO, is to use the oxygen within the injected air, to act as a supplemental oxidizer in addition to the KL media, to convert the ferrous iron to a ferric state, which the remaining KL media will filter out. Since you plan to continue utilizing chlorine, which is a superior oxidizer compared to air, I anticipate AIO would be unnecessary.

what do you think about the D1047 Clack air blocker for AIO valves?

I tend to be hesitant about using additional internal devices which could become iron fouled and then lead to additional unintended maintenance concerns and efforts.

I never thought about the pressure draw down while the filter is in regen.

During each Backwash cycle, any remaining air bubble will be eliminated to drain.

During the Air Draw cycle, the air drawn in through the injector, will fill the tank volume, particularly in the spaces between the loose KL granules which were loosened during the prior BW cycle. The air will essentially remain only slightly above atmospheric pressure since the drain valve remains open during the Air Draw cycle.

Rapid Rinse is often not utilized for AIO systems since some of the air charge will become pushed out to drain.

Once the controller enters Service Mode, the drain valve will be closed, causing the media tank to become pressurized equal to the supply pressure. This will cause the air within the tank to become compressed into a much smaller area, located at the top of the media tank. Because the Service Flow will enter at the top of the tank, above the air bubble, this permits the air to commence oxidizing the iron before the water becomes in contact with the KL media, whereby additional oxidation then filtration will take place.

 

[Corn Pop]

The purpose for AIO, is to use the oxygen within the injected air, to act as a supplemental oxidizer in addition to the KL media, to convert the ferrous iron to a ferric state, which the remaining KL media will filter out. Since you plan to continue utilizing chlorine, which is a superior oxidizer compared to air, I anticipate AIO would be unnecessary.



I tend to be hesitant about using additional internal devices which could become iron fouled and then lead to additional unintended maintenance concerns and efforts.

During each Backwash cycle, any remaining air bubble will be eliminated to drain.

During the Air Draw cycle, the air drawn in through the injector, will fill the tank volume, particularly in the spaces between the loose KL granules which were loosened during the prior BW cycle. The air will essentially remain only slightly above atmospheric pressure since the drain valve remains open during the Air Draw cycle.

Rapid Rinse is often not utilized for AIO systems since some of the air charge will become pushed out to drain.

Once the controller enters Service Mode, the drain valve will be closed, causing the media tank to become pressurized equal to the supply pressure. This will cause the air within the tank to become compressed into a much smaller area, located at the top of the media tank. Because the Service Flow will enter at the top of the tank, above the air bubble, this permits the air to commence oxidizing the iron before the water becomes in contact with the KL media, whereby additional oxidation then filtration will take place.

Do you think having the air pocket will help with h2s?

The purpose for AIO, is to use the oxygen within the injected air, to act as a supplemental oxidizer in addition to the KL media, to convert the ferrous iron to a ferric state, which the remaining KL media will filter out. Since you plan to continue utilizing chlorine, which is a superior oxidizer compared to air, I anticipate AIO would be unnecessary.



I tend to be hesitant about using additional internal devices which could become iron fouled and then lead to additional unintended maintenance concerns and efforts.

During each Backwash cycle, any remaining air bubble will be eliminated to drain.

During the Air Draw cycle, the air drawn in through the injector, will fill the tank volume, particularly in the spaces between the loose KL granules which were loosened during the prior BW cycle. The air will essentially remain only slightly above atmospheric pressure since the drain valve remains open during the Air Draw cycle.

Rapid Rinse is often not utilized for AIO systems since some of the air charge will become pushed out to drain.

Once the controller enters Service Mode, the drain valve will be closed, causing the media tank to become pressurized equal to the supply pressure. This will cause the air within the tank to become compressed into a much smaller area, located at the top of the media tank. Because the Service Flow will enter at the top of the tank, above the air bubble, this permits the air to commence oxidizing the iron before the water becomes in contact with the KL media, whereby additional oxidation then filtration will take place.

The purpose for AIO, is to use the oxygen within the injected air, to act as a supplemental oxidizer in addition to the KL media, to convert the ferrous iron to a ferric state, which the remaining KL media will filter out. Since you plan to continue utilizing chlorine, which is a superior oxidizer compared to air, I anticipate AIO would be unnecessary.



I tend to be hesitant about using additional internal devices which could become iron fouled and then lead to additional unintended maintenance concerns and efforts.

During each Backwash cycle, any remaining air bubble will be eliminated to drain.

During the Air Draw cycle, the air drawn in through the injector, will fill the tank volume, particularly in the spaces between the loose KL granules which were loosened during the prior BW cycle. The air will essentially remain only slightly above atmospheric pressure since the drain valve remains open during the Air Draw cycle.

Rapid Rinse is often not utilized for AIO systems since some of the air charge will become pushed out to drain.

Once the controller enters Service Mode, the drain valve will be closed, causing the media tank to become pressurized equal to the supply pressure. This will cause the air within the tank to become compressed into a much smaller area, located at the top of the media tank. Because the Service Flow will enter at the top of the tank, above the air bubble, this permits the air to commence oxidizing the iron before the water becomes in contact with the KL media, whereby additional oxidation then filtration will take place.

When the upper basket is removed what prevents the Katalox light media from going into the valve and out the backwash drain?