ISO Goldilocks toilet flange…

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Wescarnes

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I have a 3” sanitary tee sitting at the worst possible height, and distance from the wall.

I tried many combinations…
When the tee was horizontal, with an added 90, the flange ended up 18” from the wall
With a 45 closet flange, it was slightly closer to the wall but way too high.
2” offset flange… too high.

I have set it plumb to accept either:

a street flange is too low(sits perfectly on subfloor
a normal flange (with 3” run of pipe) is too high. The bottom edge of flange will hover 5/8” above finished floor height.

How do I get to “just right”?
Is there a part out there I haven’t come across? Does a flange extender work with a street flange?

Sincerely,

Plumb tuckered
 

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Tuttles Revenge

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A Tee on its back is not the way to plumb any drain let alone a toilet. We need more context to offer a better solution.

From just that photo we assume that there are drains coming from the upstream side past the toilet tee? Is that pipe draining fixtures from just this bathroom or other fixtures not associated with the bathroom, like a kitchen or laundry?

A better method, would be to install a Wye fitting horizontally downstream, routing the upstream fixtures around the toilet and using that branch to the toilet fixture only with a vent take off. The proper fitting to finish would be a 3x4 closet elbow which a 4" closet flange would slip inside of.
 

Wescarnes

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A Tee on its back is not the way to plumb any drain let alone a toilet. We need more context to offer a better solution.

From just that photo we assume that there are drains coming from the upstream side past the toilet tee? Is that pipe draining fixtures from just this bathroom or other fixtures not associated with the bathroom, like a kitchen or laundry?

A better method, would be to install a Wye fitting horizontally downstream, routing the upstream fixtures around the toilet and using that branch to the toilet fixture only with a vent take off. The proper fitting to finish would be a 3x4 closet elbow which a 4" closet flange would slip inside of.
Thank you TR!

I’ve attached a diagram of the rest of the bathroom. Hope it’s adequate . The bathroom is just these 3 fixtures down directly from 2nd floor of 120yr old house to basement.

I changed to tee on it’s back, because the flange was 18” off the wall.(can someone tell me why it is called a sanitary tee if you can’t sh*t directly into it?!) I tried tee at 45 with 45 flange but it put me way above floor height and still pretty far from the wall. I can’t cut into the joist any more to lower it. Previous plumbing was tee horizontal to 90.

Trying to calculate how far from the back wall and finished floor height a wye to 90 would put me.
(My friend just plumbed something similar, but his drain is buried like jimmy hoffa. Mine is a few screws in subfloor away)
 

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Tuttles Revenge

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So long as the 3" pipe isn't carrying any waste from another bathroom, it should work as an Horizontal wet vented system

Branch the toilet off first with a 3" Wye to a closet elbow. They're designed for shallow installations. Next branch horizontally with 2" to the bathroom sink and continue with 2" to the shower trap. Your sinks vent maintains 2" and is the vent for the entire bathroom. The shower trap arm extends from that Wye and is limited to 5ft
 

Wescarnes

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So long as the 3" pipe isn't carrying any waste from another bathroom, it should work as an Horizontal wet vented system

Branch the toilet off first with a 3" Wye to a closet elbow. They're designed for shallow installations. Next branch horizontally with 2" to the bathroom sink and continue with 2" to the shower trap. Your sinks vent maintains 2" and is the vent for the entire bathroom. The shower trap arm extends from that Wye and is limited to 5ft
3” wye to closet elbow puts me about 16” off the wall, which is too far. What can I do to get 4” closer to the wall?
 

Houptee

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Can you set the flange exactly where you need it then drop straight down into the basement? Under the toilet flange put a 3 x 2 side inlet fitting that picks up the shower and lav?
 

wwhitney

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What's supporting those notched joists? Seems like they are way overnotched and need a structural repair.

What's the measurement from the center line of the 3" line (the center of the san-tee 3" top inlet in your current non-compliant configuration) to the wall? If it's 12" to the finish wall right now, then an upright combo would work DWV-wise. (Or an upright wye with a 45-degree spigot end closet flange, if that exists).

Except that might put the inlet too high. In which case the only option for that location, and without further butchering of the joists, would be to use a horizontal wye, with a closet bend on the straight inlet. That means the line coming from the shower and sink would have to connect to the branch inlet of the wye, with three more 45s so it jogs around the WC. [Assuming you want to use your existing notches, vs replacing all the joists and adding proper holes at a greater or lesser distance from the wall. Which is not crazy as the notched joists need a structural repair anyway.]

Except that would be difficult to fit all in one joist bay. You could change the upstream drain all to 2", since it's carrying only a lav and a shower, that might let you get it to fit. Or allow you to have the 2" line offset only at one joist (putting 2 45s in the next bay), so you could design the repair for that joist to accommodate the new hole location.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Wescarnes

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What's supporting those notched joists? Seems like they are way overnotched and need a structural repair.

What's the measurement from the center line of the 3" line (the center of the san-tee 3" top inlet in your current non-compliant configuration) to the wall? If it's 12" to the finish wall right now, then an upright combo would work DWV-wise. (Or an upright wye with a 45-degree spigot end closet flange, if that exists).

Except that might put the inlet too high. In which case the only option for that location, and without further butchering of the joists, would be to use a horizontal wye, with a closet bend on the straight inlet. That means the line coming from the shower and sink would have to connect to the branch inlet of the wye, with three more 45s so it jogs around the WC. [Assuming you want to use your existing notches, vs replacing all the joists and adding proper holes at a greater or lesser distance from the wall. Which is not crazy as the notched joists need a structural repair anyway.]

Except that would be difficult to fit all in one joist bay. You could change the upstream drain all to 2", since it's carrying only a lav and a shower, that might let you get it to fit. Or allow you to have the 2" line offset only at one joist (putting 2 45s in the next bay), so you could design the repair for that joist to accommodate the new hole location.

Cheers, Wayne
Hey Wayne,
As it’s set now, it is 9.75” from the wall. Also, doesn’t the toilet need 15” from center on left and right? There is a dividing wall to the right of that tee.
So, there’s really no room for a wye…

Is sanitary tee on its side to street 90 adequate?
OR
Is sanitary tee at 45 with 45 closet flange ok?
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Without knowing the exact Plan View layout, this is how I would try to approach your bathroom.

FarmHouse.png
 

wwhitney

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As it’s set now, it is 9.75” from the wall. Also, doesn’t the toilet need 15” from center on left and right? There is a dividing wall to the right of that tee.
Yes.
So, there’s really no room for a wye…
There has to be room for a wye, as there is no compliant way to use a sanitary tee to make the connection you want.

What is your plan for repairing the joists? As that may open up more possibilities than sticking with the pipe in the notches you have.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Houptee

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What is below the toilet in the basement that would prevent you from dropping straight down with the 3" and tie everything together in the ceiling of the basement?
 

Wescarnes

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What is below the toilet in the basement that would prevent you from dropping straight down with the 3" and tie everything together in the ceiling of the basement?
The living room on the first floor. This is a second floor bath.
Done and dusted.
Now poo poo go bye bye

Thank you all for your helpful advice.
 

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Wescarnes

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hey!
okay, back to my original question…

With a 3”x4” dwv flange, the bottom edge ends up 1/2” above finished floor.

The street version of that flange is too low.

What do I do?
I can’t lower the drainpipe.

Can I lose 1/4” off each side of the fittings? Or take 1/2” from one?

Is there a street 3”x4” that can be custom cut to allow the flange to reach optimal position?

Thank you!
 

Reach4

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What are you trying to connect the flange to? I understand that I could try to go back through the history, but I might mess that up. Does your latest photo illustrate the existing situation?

For example, are you trying to connect into a hub that is 2 inches below the top of the floor surface?

Are you trying to fit over a 3 inch vertical pipe equivalent, or what? That is my best guess.
 
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Wescarnes

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What are you trying to connect the flange to? I understand that I could try to go back through the history, but I might mess that up. Does your latest photo illustrate the existing situation?

For example, are you trying to connect into a hub that is 2 inches below the top of the floor surface?

Are you trying to fit over a 3 inch vertical pipe equivalent, or what? That is my best guess.
Hopefully these pics demonstrate the issue clearly…
This is all 3” pvc. A “street” flange tailpipe is too short to fully seat in the elbow. And shown in the pics, this combo of two females connected with a 3 in long piece of pipe leaves me 1/2” above finished floor height.

Could I remove 1/2” from the toilet flange?

Why is this so complicated? I must be missing something obvious.

Thanks
 

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Reach4

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From the first new photo, with the plastic bag, it looks like we could be looking into a 3 inch hub. A 3 inch hub has almost vertical walls that are about 3.5 inch inside diameter. This would be a match to glue a 3 inch PVC pipe into, but of course that is only a size comparison.

Thus you would want a 3 inch "spigot" tail that would be about 3.5 inch OD. A 3" spigot tail is the same size OD as a regular 3 inch PVC pipe.

So if my proposed description matches, a 3”x4” closet flange would not fit. Those have tail that is made to mate with a pipe, and not a hub.

Here is one that can be cut to length: https://ipsplumbingproducts.com/brands/water-tite/closet-and-urinal-flanges/long-closet-flange/

There are likely others that would fit, but look at the description and see if this is the format that would work. Note that it does have a stainless steel ring. I would want to avoid gluing in a flange that had a plastic ring.
 
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wwhitney

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Have you fixed the other problems that we discussed earlier?

As to the closet flange, there are extended spigot 3" flanges available.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Wescarnes

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Have you fixed the other problems that we discussed earlier?

As to the closet flange, there are extended spigot 3" flanges available.

Cheers, Wayne
Great!
I fixed everything. I replaced the Sami tee with a wye and elbow, added mending plates to the joists, installed shower and toilet supply. Turned on the water to check and forgot I’d opened a sink valve to release suction and gave the bathroom a “quick rinse” ‍♂️.

I think I’m good to go. Extended spigot comes tomorrow, but I won’t need til the tile’s in anyway.

Thank y’all for your help
 
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