How to align PVC pipe in cast hub with donut

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TacoFan

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Hi all,

I recently cut out the 1.5” galvanized clothes washer stand pipe, p trap, tee, and the pipe between the tee and the cast iron hub.

The cast iron hub was fitted with lead and oakum.

I added a Fernco donut of the best possible size (which was quite tight) and got the PVC in there.

Now I find the PVC is not in line with the old galvanized vent pipe above the tee. The PVC is angled so that it would exit the stud wall and get further and further into the room if I were to extend it to the ceiling all the way.

It seems like the hub is installed a little bit crooked.

I could potentially strap the pvc to get it to line up, but it would take a fair bit of force, and I’m worried about that wearing out the donut prematurely.

Thoughts? How can I get this pvc to point towards the old vent pipe so I can connect the pvc to the vent?

This first pic shows the PVC at the floor. It sticks out about half an inch

78AD6F4B-1779-44DF-A483-82672FF99753.jpeg


This second photo shows the PVC about 2 feet off the ground. Now it sticks out about 1 and a half inches

A1B06A01-7885-42A4-AFDC-C72A126E1840.jpeg


About four feet off the ground the vent pipe is recessed into the wall about a quarter inch. This is the vent pipe I want the PVC to connect to.

37B62B90-E580-4D48-9EF3-D501F67ECEB1.jpeg
 
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breplum

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As a plumber, we would just go further and demo out the cast iron hub tee.
There is no good way, if indeed the vertical plastic pipe is not aligned, to force it back.
A reasonable option would be to toss the donut and oakum and lead wool the joint. But, again, a plumber job and having all the tools is more than half the battle.
 

TacoFan

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As a plumber, we would just go further and demo out the cast iron hub tee.
There is no good way, if indeed the vertical plastic pipe is not aligned, to force it back.
A reasonable option would be to toss the donut and oakum and lead wool the joint. But, again, a plumber job and having all the tools is more than half the battle.

Thanks for the insight!

I’m a little hesitant to demo the cast hub out. The hub is going through the bottom plate on an exterior wall. The house is slab on grade, so the concrete is probably extra thick where the hub goes through. If at all possible I want to avoid making cuts or penetrations of the slab. I’m worried about water leaking through any penetrations, or creating weak points/future cracking problems.

I believe lead wool isn’t code where I live. I think I’m allowed to use lead and oakum, so if I could find a plumber who knows it, I guess I could have them make me a new lead and oakum joint
 

wwhitney

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How about an overall picture?

And are the galvanized pipe and the PVC pipe coplanar, or slightly skew to each other?

Cheers, Wayne
 

TacoFan

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0B314E28-B044-4828-9B5C-7F85EDAC8650.jpeg

Here’s overall. The pvc points a little bit left from where it should. The pvc also points into the room instead of slightly towards the exterior siding.

I should note I plan to cut the pvc before installing that sanitary tee permanently. The tee is currently too high, as the trap arm should be a max of 18 inches from what I’m aware.
 

wwhitney

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IPC or UPC?

Is that new PVC the required 2" size? Is the cast iron in the slab 2"? 1-1/2" isn't allowed for washer standpipes any more.

Cheers, Wayne
 

TacoFan

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IPC or UPC?

Is that new PVC the required 2" size? Is the cast iron in the slab 2"? 1-1/2" isn't allowed for washer standpipes any more.

Cheers, Wayne
It’s CA, which is based on the UPC. The existing pipe is 1.5” so I’m hoping I’ll be alright to replace it with the same, given that this is a repair. If it were easy to go to 2” I’d be inclined to do so. I don’t see any easy way to make 2” work here in the 2x4 wall, but if you do, I’m all ears. Part of the issue is there isn’t enough room for a 4” trap arm required for the 2” drain.

I believe the cast iron is 2”
 

wwhitney

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The vent can be 1.5", so it's fine to use the existing galvanized. And you can run a 2" trap arm dead center through a 2x4 stud; reinforce it with a Simpson HSS2-SDS1.5 stud shoe.

But the question is whether the cast iron below is 2" or not. If it is, you should be able to get a donut for 2" PVC to the 2" hub. And maybe, as that donut would be thinner, and you are now aware of the issue, while installing the 2" pipe and donut you can manipulate the angle slightly to be closer to plumb.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Tuttles Revenge

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But the question is whether the cast iron below is 2" or not
Agreed. Most cast in the ground would have been 2" from my experience.. in Washington.

The UPC does allow for "repair" work to be done in the same pipe sizes as was original to the house if that work was done to code at the time. Once you change the location of the fixture or it purpose, like making the clothes washer a connection into a sink, the new fixture must meet current code.

A couple 22° bends would easily align the PVC with the existing vent.
 

breplum

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By code, any time you "touch" piping, you become subject to modern elements.
2" for washing machine drains came into code some time in the '50s and pertains to why you should not use 1.5" for any WM drain.
BTW, you'd also do well to add a 2" Clean-out tee for that drain, if there is not a cleanout outside the foundation.
A donut for 2" or plumber. Stacked no-hub fittings can fudge a bit with each coupling as well. Tee distance off floor is not less than 6" nor greater than 18" and the standpipe off the P trap is Min 18" and Max 30".
 

wwhitney

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A couple 22° bends would easily align the pvc with the existing vent.
Often true, but I think the OP's case is a bit more complicated. (2) 22s could get the PVC to plumb, but it would likely still be offset from the galvanized. Quite possibly you could get the PVC pointed at the galvanized with a small enough angle off plumb that you could finesse that angle with the galvanized-PVC banded rubber coupling. Worst case you'd need another (2) 22s up higher, or try to mess with (3) 22s at once (quite complicated).

Cheers, Wayne
 

Mr tee

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I would use oakum and soil-o (easier than lead wool) so you can angle the pipe a bit like it was before. I would use 2" pipe and a 2 X 1 1/2" X 2 san tee. The tee needs to be lower than what you show. If you need to trim wood to use 2", trim wood.
 

TacoFan

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5BC825A1-D259-4896-90FF-F30B69A52AB5.jpeg

This picture shows what 2” would look like. I do have a stud shoe and will need to bore that 2x4 for either 1.5” or 2”. The issue is that conduit is in the way. Even if I were to switch the conduit to flex, the wires wouldn’t be long enough to route around the new location of the washer box, which would need to be below the outlet. So then I’d need to add another j box with no outlet to extend the wires to the outlet (not ideal). That said, I have no idea what those wires below the washer box go, and it wouldn’t be code these days to have the washer outlet feed anything else. I still do want to keep those wires fed from the washer outlet since it seems to originally have been that way for some reason, and the wires may be useful for something I haven’t figured out yet.

I believe in CA some repair work is allowed to be done to the original code, especially if the building is eligible to be classified as a historic building, which ours may be

(Note: I would not mix ABS and PVC. I just had a 2” ABS trap and tee laying around and am using them to show the positioning of the 2” PVC I would use
 
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wwhitney

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Now that the conduit is in play, your overall picture is still too tight. We can't see the receptacle box, for example.

Do you have 2-1/2" clear in front of the conduit but inside the wall, or can you push it towards the wall enough to get 2-1/2" clear? [Is that EMT? But the coupling looks unfamiliar.] Or would you be willing to fur the wall? In either case, the u-bend can overlap the conduit (in the left-right dimension), and you can use a pair of 45s (or 22.5s) to offset the standpipe back to your washer box location.

Or perhaps you could move the washer box to the left, and move the receptacle box to the same height as the washer box, and to the right side of it. That would require rerouting the conduit.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Terry

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I would also go with 2" into the 2" cast iron hub. Downsizing a washer isn't a good idea. Even though in the 60's they did use that size.
A couple of 22's to bring it into the wall, and add a 2" cleanout.
 

TacoFan

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My washer installation instructions indicate either a 1.5 inch or 2 inch drain will work, fwiw. If I have a 2 inch drain I believe they require me to use an adapter.

I’ll see if there’s any way I can get rid of the conduit in the way of the 2” p trap.

The conduit is emt. Betweeen the exterior siding and the conduit is 1 3/4 inches. Between the conduit and the drywall would be about 1”. Still not sure why the conduit is there, so if I’m lucky I can just get rid of it. If I can’t get rid of it I think 2” is not going to be possible unless I can re-run the wires so they’re longer (which is a lot of work probably), or add a j box (which would not be code compliant since it’d be a new box added downstream of the washer outlet).

The gfci is fed power from a sub panel. The incoming power is fed from the roof, and I have limited length of wire to move the outlet elsewhere, maybe 6” extra for the inbound wire, and 0” extra from the emt.

I called to get the utility companies to mark the underground utilities so I can dig outside. Maybe if I dig outside this wall I’ll learn a little more. I’m considering potentially digging out the cast iron and just going pvc through the slab and connect that to the buried drain outside.

If I’m lucky this conduit was added for sprinklers or something. We don’t want sprinklers anyway, so if it’s for sprinklers, I’ll just get rid of it.
DDE37A8D-CB8D-4889-9DA0-79512770EA3B.jpeg
 
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wwhitney

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The conduit is emt. Betweeen the exterior siding and the conduit is 1 3/4 inches. Between the conduit and the drywall would be about 1”. Still not sure why the conduit is there, so if I’m lucky I can just get rid of it. If I can’t get rid of it I think 2” is not going to be possible unless I can re-run the wires so they’re longer (which is a lot of work probably), or add a j box (which would not be code compliant since it’d be a new box added downstream of the washer outlet)
Are you saying that the EMT is not the supply to the washer receptacle, but a supply leaving the washer receptacle going on to another load not in the laundry area? The latter would be an NEC violation, but adding the junction box itself isn't, nor does it make the existing violation any worse, IMO. The junction box would need to remain accessible, e.g. if you pull the washer out.

Cheers, Wayne
 

TacoFan

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Are you saying that the EMT is not the supply to the washer receptacle, but a supply leaving the washer receptacle going on to another load not in the laundry area? The latter would be an NEC violation, but adding the junction box itself isn't, nor does it make the existing violation any worse, IMO. The junction box would need to remain accessible, e.g. if you pull the washer out.

Cheers, Wayne

The emt is a load. The gfci line is provided by cotton braided wire from the roof. The emt was originally connected with wire nuts and not using the gfci load terminal, just skipping the outlet altogether.

Yeah that’s my understanding as well, that the emt is a code violation today. I don’t know when the code started preventing it. Maybe it was acceptable practice when the house was built?

My hope is I can either get rid of the emt to allow 2” pipe, or switch the emt to flex.

Then again, 1.5” pipe would probably work fine for my washer and would be easy.

Regarding furring the wall out, it’s not really a great option, as the space is already only 27.5 inches deep, meaning I can’t even use most washer dryers without them protruding into a doorway
 

TacoFan

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I took a closer look. The emt/rigid conduit heading down from the gfci is original to the house and feeds an outlet in a bedroom. I guess doing that must have been code when the house was built.
 
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Jeff H Young

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throw a couple 22.5s on it 2 streets or one regular and one street for a small offset . no big deal cut the gal up high and it'll all flow together
 
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