Hot Water Heater Outside Backdraft Options?

[Dvid]

I have a Bradford White Defender hot water heater with power vent RG1PV50S6N. The physical L shape of our house walls catches nasty backdrafts that go up the 45 degree angle exhaust pipe and down into our basement where the hwh is located. This happened with our bathroom vent too in the soffit above and we put a backdraft preventer on that.

Is there anything outside at all I can do with the termination point to help? You can see my walls and vent attached. It is close to the ground.

I've been told by a few plumbers I should NOT do the "candy cane" type connection where the pipe comes out (seen below), goes up and then down 90 degrees because of possible condensation issues. It's confusing to me because they start talking about my system probably wouldn't do that but if it did there would be acid and that needs a separate drain, etc.

I can't install a damper on the pipe inside myself and would be a bit scared to go that route because if it ever fails or gets stuck, burnoff could backup. In theory the Bradford White shuts off if that happens, but that "in theory" could get me killed.

We looked at something like this from Amazon to expand to a 3 inch vent, but it would be frankensteined together outside to make it work. https://a.co/d/dCJVn7q

I asked Bradford White and they said there is nothing I can do because my exhaust doesn't go through the roof.

I guess if there is no outside solution, if there was an inside damper that could go in the pipe with an indicator about it opening correctly it would give me piece of mind.

Thanks.

 

[Dvid]

OK, thinking about abandoning the outside solution and installing a PVC damper in the horizontal 2" pipe (inside in the basement) that runs outside. What do you think of that idea?

I don't suppose the damper could freeze closed could it?

I just called Bradford White and they said there should be no way I am getting any backdraft. But they also said I should not install a damper.

Is there anything I can do to prevent this outside air coming in?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

See https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyh...ord-White-RG1PV50S6N-Install-Instructions.pdf page 15

 

[Dvid]

See https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyh...ord-White-RG1PV50S6N-Install-Instructions.pdf page 15

Was there something specific I missed there about preventing backdraft? I have the manual and referenced it in my original post in the small diagram.

I have the 45 degree angle termination point. Even if I did the other "candy cane" type termination configuration it would not prevent backdraft because the soffit vent for my bathroom fan had to have a damper installed the wind pressure was so strong.
I think the only possible solution is a damper in the horizontal pipe just inside the basement foundation wall, but it seems like Bradford White is cautioning against it, so far without reasoning why. Waiting to hear from them. It's hard to tell if they just don't want to talk about anything related to exhaust for liability reasons or if that truly is a bad idea.
Thanks for chiming in!

 

[Reach4]

Was there something specific I missed there about preventing backdraft? I have the manual and referenced it in my original post in the small diagram.

They show a 90 degree bend pointing down. You have a 45 or 22.5.
Logically 45 would seem to be more prone to being affected by winds than a 90. How about adding a 45 to what you have?

But that might run afoul of the snow thing.
I have an idea: do the page 17 thing, but drill a 3/8 inch hole to drain water from the low point.

 

[Dvid]

They show a 90 degree bend pointing down. You have a 45 or 22.5.
Logically 45 would seem to be more prone to being affected by winds than a 90. How about adding a 45 to what you have?

But that might run afoul of the snow thing.
I have an idea: do the page 17 thing, but drill a 3/8 inch hole to drain water from the low point.

I don't think you are supposed to have a 90 degree termination that close to the ground. The concern is snow level. Plus 90 degress won't stop the backdraft. It's a wind thing but also likely a pressure situation.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Just throw another 45 on that line and point it down towards the ground....
maybe put a short nipple into the end and extend it downwards aabout 4 inches
I would not worry too much about snow and you can always keep an eye on it

you wont have a condensation problem and if you look on top of
your heater on the side of the fan motor their should be a drain port that you
just pull the cap off of and throw a piece of tubing onto and drain down to the
floor

it will work

 

[Fitter30]

Your limited to 4 ells with 3" pipe. With 4" 5 ells. Page 12. The chart has to be followed. There is a fitting that connects to outlet of the flue fan with condensate drains. p/n 239-45875-00. Go to install manual.
www.waterheatermanuals.com/bradford-white/rg1pv50s6n/

www.bradfordwhiteparts.com/product/bradford-white-239-45875-00-2-inch-condensate-discharge-kit

 

[Dvid]

Just throw another 45 on that line and point it down towards the ground....
maybe put a short nipple into the end and extend it downwards aabout 4 inches
I would not worry too much about snow and you can always keep an eye on it

you wont have a condensation problem and if you look on top of
your heater on the side of the fan motor their should be a drain port that you
just pull the cap off of and throw a piece of tubing onto and drain down to the
floor

it will work

Sorry, not a plumber. I get the part about another 45 degree angle pipe. Can you explain "put a short nipple into the end and extend it downwards about 4 inches" to me? Do you mean a part with two male ends to connect the two 45 degree angle pieces? The current 45 degree angle piece has no threads and is unfortunately glued on close to the wall.

I may indeed try this configuration in a non glued way to test it. I'm doubtful it will stop the wind / pressure backdraft though.

I'd like to be able to remove it if it doesn't work and when I sell the house so it's code. Every snow above 2 inches or so I always check that termination point. It usually has melted the snow away but I even move the snow farther out away from it to prevent drifting in that area.

I'll look for the condensation drain tube port. Thanks.

 

[Dvid]

Your limited to 4 ells with 3" pipe. With 4" 5 ells. Page 12. The chart has to be followed. There is a fitting that connects to outlet of the flue fan with condensate drains. p/n 239-45875-00. Go to install manual.
www.waterheatermanuals.com/bradford-white/rg1pv50s6n/

www.bradfordwhiteparts.com/product/bradford-white-239-45875-00-2-inch-condensate-discharge-kit

Thanks. I could not find it in the manual. And I may try a different tubing. $71 for a plastic tube. Wow! Still shocked next time I replace the anode it'll be $111 - $130.

 

[Fitter30]

Thanks. I could not find it in the manual. And I may try a different tubing. $71 for a plastic tube. Wow! Still shocked next time I replace the anode it'll be $111 - $130.

Could use a tee bull ( side outlet ) pointing down bushed down to 1/2" hose and put a 6" loop in the vertical hose so there will be condensate trapped in the loop to keep flue gas from coming out. Might also pitch horizontal flue back to tee. Co detector in the basement.

 

[Fitter30]

Thanks. I could not find it in the manual. And I may try a different tubing. $71 for a plastic tube. Wow! Still shocked next time I replace the anode it'll be $111 - $130.

Bradford White RG1PV50S6N TTW Water Heater Installation and Operation Instruction Manual | Water Heater Manuals

Bradford White RG1PV50S6N TTW Series Installation and Operation Instruction Manual. Residential power vent 50 gallon gas water heater with ScreenLok, Hydrojet, ...

www.waterheatermanuals.com

Replacement anode rod most time will be aftermarket becausevit will have to be segmented to install it. Most installations don't have 44" of height above heater.

 

[Reach4]

Replacement anode rod most time will be aftermarket becausevit will have to be segmented to install it. Most installations don't have 44" of height above heater.

Question... just curious... when replacing an anode with a hex head, you often need an impact wrench. With an anode shared with the output nipple, are those often seized in to where they are very hard to pull? I know it is often suggested to insert a 5/8 inch bolt into the nipple before applying the pipe wrench.

I also recognize that the anode seldom gets pulled.

 

[Breplum]

O.P. do you have a furnace in the room near the water heater? If so and if it uses air from the room for combustion, then is could be the source of negative air pressure causing the backdraft on the WH

 

[Fitter30]

Question... just curious... when replacing an anode with a hex head, you often need an impact wrench. With an anode shared with the output nipple, are those often seized in to where they are very hard to pull? I know it is often suggested to insert a 5/8 inch bolt into the nipple.

I also recognize that the anode seldom gets pulled.

Hex head rod if the original either a 1/2 or 3/4" drive impact or if heater is in a corner ratchet strap and 2x4. Strap 2x4 close to the top 2 x resting on the wall to keep the heater from rotating. 18" pipe wrench 2 lb hammer put pressure on wrench Smack wrench with hammer just below its head. Once a nipple is deformed it's done. The galvanize could be cracked then start to rust turning the water brown. There also you tube videos on changing rods.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Hex head rod if the original either a 1/2 or 3/4" drive impact or if heater is in a corner ratchet strap and 2x4. Strap 2x4 close to the top 2 x resting on the wall to keep the heater from rotating. 18" pipe wrench 2 lb hammer put pressure on wrench Smack wrench with hammer just below its head. Once a nipple is deformed it's done. The galvanize could be cracked then start to rust turning the water brown. There also you tube videos on changing rods.

The Bradford white anode rod is located attached to the hot water side nipple which is very easy to replace...

I would not attempt to change out a rod with a hex head that is basically been hammered down into the socket and wont come out without extreme effort and misery