Help programming Fleck 5800 SXT

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Lexd

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Hi everyone,

We got a Fleck 5800 SXT 45,000-grain installed recently. Initially the installer mixed up the tank size (installed a 30,000-grain instead) and we just got the correct tank swapped. However, it looks like they didn't reprogram the controller for the larger tank size (the display says "1:00" for "Resin" which I assume means 1.0 cuft). I tried to contact the company and got absolutely no useful info from them - I was hoping you could help. I'm a complete noob at this.

Family size: currently 2 adults + 1 kid. There'll be 2 more people living with us in the near future, and maybe another kid down the line (hence the 45,000 tank).
Water usage: currently at ~200 gallons a day.
City water. Not sure about exact hardness number. The seller configured hardness at 15. I questioned this (seeing 7.7 posted online for my area) but the guy just said 15 is fine. They just tested with a paper strip. I know those are not precise.

Please, if you could give me an idea how to configure the system for now and for when 2 more adults join us. Thank you in advance!
 

Reach4

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Measure the tank... 10 inch diameter, 54 inches tall, 9x48, or what?

Is the tank tan-colored? If so, you can shine a light thru and see how full of resin the tank is . 2/3 full is typical.

The 5800SXT will have settings for H and C, but none called "resin".
 

Lexd

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It is 10x54. It's wrapped up in something black so I can't see through it.

You're absolutely right about the valve. I had ordered the 5800SXT but it seems they gave me the 5800LXT instead and I didn't notice the one letter difference. Is the LXT inferior to the SXT? If so I will ask for them to deliver the correct one.
 

Lexd

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Is there a big price difference between the two? I wonder if it was a mistake at their end or they were being dishonest… I’ll try to get it swapped.

Regardless of the valve model, any advice on what kind of configuration would be appropriate for our use case? Thanks.
 

Reach4

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You could ask the water department what the hardness is. They will tend to give you average hardness, but you would prefer the highest hardness number.

The Hach 5-B test gives good results, and is useful to check for residual hardness later.
 

Lexd

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I got them to swap the valve for the SXT today. The technician programmed it at 24,000 for "C" (Unit Capacity). I'm not sure if this makes sense for a 45,000 grain tank. Should I increase it when we have 2 more adults joining us in December? (4 adults + 1 toddler in total.)

Other current settings: Hardness is 15, Day Override is 14. Let me know if there are other relevant settings I should post.
 

Reach4

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"A 45000 grain" softener. 48000 is a common nominal number, but that number should not go into C. Given that you have a 10x54 tank, I am going to presume that you have 1.5 cuft of resin.

Also check the BLFC number. There should be a sticker near where the brine line connects to the valve. I will guess 0.25 gpm, but you must check that. If yours is 0.50, you must cut BF in half.

Compare the settings as they exist to what I write below.

As you add more people who use more water, the only setting change would be the RC (reserve capacity) number. I will put 240 into the settings I post below. You really should get a Hach 5-B hardness test. Call your water department, and ask what the max hardness is. I am going to assume, for the numbers below, an actual 10 but increase to 11 compensate for "high hardness compensation"



For temporary visitors, consider triggering the regen a little early. A brief poke of the button schedules regen tonight, and holding for 5 seconds triggers immediate regen.

5800SXT System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 7.5 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.25 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 1.5 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 10.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day 200.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Est days/regen 16.2 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity


Fleck 5800SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = 5800 ; Valve type
RF = dF2b ; Downflow, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 35 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 11 ; Hardness grains after comp factor
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 200 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 6 ; Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 4 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]
BF = 15 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = T0.7 ?? ; Do not know default flow meter yet
 
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Lexd

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Thank you! A lot of info there for me to process :) but it's beginning to make more sense now that I have the valve I was expecting.

Yes it is 1.5 cu ft.

As for BLFC: I found the sticker, but there wasn't any number written on it. I asked the company that sold me the softener, and they said "2.4" - does that mean 0.50 (just based off a quick Internet search) (update: I asked them again and the answer is 0.125). What does this number mean? Is a smaller number better? Or doesn't matter?

Regarding hardness, based on online reports by the water department of my area, the hardness is around 7.65. Hardness is currently set to 15 and the company rep was very certain about this for my area. Is there any harm in setting it higher than the reported number?

I'll go and write down the current settings later today. I'd like to understand your recommendations a bit more before making changes, so I know what I'm doing. Could you explain how you determined the "C" value? The technician configured "C" to be 24 - it seems low to me but was that a mistake or there's some logic to it?

Day Override - I've read that water softeners shouldn't go more than 2 weeks without regen - could you explain the 30 recommendation?
 
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Reach4

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1. C is based on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983 numbers.

Here is the deal: some numbers have to build in some margin. That could be by reducing C, or by adding the high-hardness compensation, as I did. You should check your hardness, since I picked a number based on fuzzy info, add maybe 1, and use that as H.

Another way to do that would be to set H to 9, and use your H-5B test to check the residual hardness as the gallons count down toward zero. When the number hits zero, that does not trigger an immediate regen; the regen waits until RT time. The reserve capacity is used until regen. So a bit of measurement and experimentation can save some salt. Note that changing the settings only affects the next regen. And it might make the softener start its gallon count down over, even tho you have some gallons thru the softener.

2. City water is pretty much free of iron by the time it gets to the house. Some wells are pretty much free of iron. 30 days is good for RT if you don't have a significant amount of iron at the softener input. Where do you draw the line? I don't know. If you wanted the softener to deal with 1 ppm of iron, you might set the DO to 3 or maybe a little more if you take extra steps to help the softener deal with the iron.

Water departments tend to report average hardness, if they report it at all. So if they use more river/lake water at times and more well water at times, then the hardness will vary thru the year.

With city water, you should have 10% crosslinked resin.

3. BLFC.... I think, but I am not sure, that water used in the house during BF is softened. If that is the case, a longer fill time is not a big deal. So using a 0.125 gpm BLFC will call for a BF 4x longer than if you use a 0.5 gpm BLFC. The 0.125 gpm BLFC will give more granularity.

So yours... the way the installer set up BF should be a good indicator. A number under 10 would presumably say he thought the BLFC was 0.5. If over 20, he probably thought the BLFC was 0.125. Not for sure.

To test the BLFC, you could have a brine fill play into a bucket instead of the brine tank. Weigh the bucket before and after, or measure the water rise in a 5-gallon bucket. You could pull the BLFC, and look at the numbers molded into the button opposite. 50 is 0.5, 25 is 0.25, and 123 is 0.125. That button is directional.
 

Lexd

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"A 45000 grain" softener. 48000 is a common nominal number, but that number should not go into C. Given that you have a 10x54 tank, I am going to presume that you have 1.5 cuft of resin.

Also check the BLFC number. There should be a sticker near where the brine line connects to the valve. I will guess 0.25 gpm, but you must check that. If yours is 0.50, you must cut BF in half.

Compare the settings as they exist to what I write below.

As you add more people who use more water, the only setting change would be the RC (reserve capacity) number. I will put 240 into the settings I post below. You really should get a Hach 5-B hardness test. Call your water department, and ask what the max hardness is. I am going to assume, for the numbers below, an actual 10 but increase to 11 compensate for "high hardness compensation"



For temporary visitors, consider triggering the regen a little early. A brief poke of the button schedules regen tonight, and holding for 5 seconds triggers immediate regen.

5800SXT System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 7.5 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.25 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 1.5 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 10.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day 200.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Est days/regen 16.2 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity


Fleck 5800SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = 5800 ; Valve type
RF = dF2b ; Downflow, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 35 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 11 ; Hardness grains after comp factor
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 200 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 6 ; Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 4 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]
BF = 15 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = T0.7 ?? ; Do not know default flow meter yet
I finally got a chance to check the current settings.

DF = GAL
VT = 5800
RF = df1b
CT = Fd
C = 24
H = 15
RC = 0 (I’ve now set it to 240. We have 4 adults + 1 kid now. Should I increase it?)
DO = 14 (I’ve changed it to 30)
RT = 2:00
BW = 8
BD = 60
RR = 6
BF = 25
FM = P0.7
RE = tb
ST = 91
ET = 92

I tried changing C and it changes the remaining capacity right away, but I assume it is not accurate until the next regen? Should I wait until the next regen to change C?

A significant difference from your suggestion is a single backwash as opposed to double backwash. Why do we want double instead?

Should I leave BF as is or reduce it to 15?

FM: what does P mean? The flow rate is 0.125. Should I leave it as is?

Thanks a lot in advance!
 

Reach4

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I think when you change C and other things, the controller thinks the system has been freshly regenerated, and sets the gallon countdown accordingly. If you only had an expected 200 gallons of capacity remaining, you would probably want to schedule a regen tonight, or even immediately, if that fits your schedule. But if there was a fair amount of capacity left, you might want to trigger a regen at a later time.

P means paddlewheel vs turbine. That is a big deal in settings. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/ I was not confident that 5800 offered both choices. Look at your sensor meter and tell us what you see.

Double backwash reshuffles (reclassifies) the media after brining. So the best-regenerated and worst-regenerated beads are mixed.

BF (together with the BLFC) determines how much salt is used. I now see that you amended post 11 to say you actually have a 0.125 gpm BLFC. With the smaller BLFC number, you would want to change BF to 30 minutes if you wanted 7.5 lb/cuft. Here is a table with various C and BF choices:

Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983

The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
BLFC 0.125
cubic ft resin 1.5


lb/cuft C= BF= grains/pound of salt
2.5 18.1 10 4824 #too lean for most.
2.8 19.5 11 4718
3.0 20.7 12 4610
3.3 21.9 13 4502
3.5 23.1 14 4396
3.8 24.1 15 4292
4.0 25.1 16 4191
4.3 26.1 17 4093
4.5 27.0 18 3999
4.8 27.8 19 3908
5.0 28.7 20 3820
5.3 29.4 21 3736
5.5 30.2 22 3655
5.8 30.9 23 3578
6.0 31.5 24 3503 #a good choice with moderate salt use and pretty good softening
6.3 32.2 25 3431 # Where your BF=25 got you. A good choice.
6.5 32.8 26 3362
6.8 33.4 27 3295
7.0 33.9 28 3231
7.3 34.5 29 3169
7.5 35.0 30 3110 #My current favorite
7.8 35.5 31 3053
8.0 36.0 32 2997 #a good choice with better softening and reasonable salt use. Highly recommended.
8.3 36.4 33 2944
8.5 36.9 34 2892
8.8 37.3 35 2843
9.0 37.7 36 2795
9.3 38.1 37 2748
9.5 38.5 38 2703
9.8 38.9 39 2660
10.0 39.3 40 2617 #high salt use
 
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Lexd

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Thanks. I need some time to digest that chart.

As for paddlewheel vs turbine, is this what I should be looking at? See photos attached.

I feel like the current settings are wrong somehow. I started a regen last night. This morning I remember the remaining capacity was around 1000. Now it is saying 397! I don’t think we used that much water. Do you think it’s the settings or something else is flawed here?
 

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Lexd

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Hmm yeah something is not right. I just took a shower and then went down to check. It was 397 remaining before and now 305! I couldn’t have used 92 gallons for a shower! Is this a configuration problem (flow rate) or a hardware problem?
 

Bannerman

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As for paddlewheel vs turbine, is this what I should be looking at?
The component with the white wire protruding from it, located between the bypass valve and the control valve, is a Turbine flow meter.
 
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Bannerman

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With the Flow Meter setting programmed as P0.7, the control valve will calculate 1 gallon soft water consumed for every 20 pulses received from the flow meter. A Turbine flow meter will send 133 pulses for each gallon consumed, so with the incorrect Paddlewheel setting utilized for a Turbine meter, the control valve will be calculating a much greater quantity of soft water (6.65X) than is actually being consumed.
 

Lexd

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Yeah it looked like turbine to me based on the link you included. Ugh. I’ll fix that today. Is it t0.7 for sure or can it be something else?
 

Reach4

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The service manual page 2 column 2 seems to imply that the 1-inch turbine or paddlewheel are not used.
 
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