Floor Drain Rough-In Question

[Gundraw]

We like to use floor sinks in place of floor drains frequently. They are better. They have grates thar can be drilled and much larger openings.

Yes, this has been looked at as well. For the drains in the slab, I am looking at these fat max drains from Sioux Chief (not technically called a floor sink, but is very similar):

That said, I still like the idea (if possible) to have the P-trap above the floor so it can be removed and used as a cleanout. My last house had an old cast iron floor drain that was perpetually "slow", so I had to be careful to keep it clean and keep solids out as much as possible. The drain I have pictured has a nice basket inside to hopefully catch garbage before entering the trap.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[John Gayewski]

The soiux cheif finish line drain system is really nice. You can actually change the tops after they are poured in. There are cups that screw into the body that can be used in place of a grate. But the nice thing about floor sinks is that there is a strainer inside and a grate on the outside.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

floor sinks floor drains and standpipes all have uses . Takes some thought to figure what you need a floor drain is best for where a water heater leaks or in a bathroom or laundry room where a large spill might occur but not as great for dumping condensate , or dumping water softener

 

[Gundraw]

@John Gayewski, @Jeff H Young

So I have one drain that is relatively close to the main drain trunk. I found two ways that I can get the drain roughly where it needs to be but unsure which solution is best/permitted with the floor drain setup I showed in post #1.

Using a rolled up Wye and a 45:

Using a 22.5 Fitting

The 45 degree option seems to line up better, but it causes me to have the wye rolled up almost vertically. I am not sure if this is a problem or not.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

(That JMEagle CellCore is only for mock up, everything is getting solid sch. 40)

 

[wwhitney]

1) What's with the vertical two way cleanout fitting?

2) You need to use a standard trap, not make up your own.

3) What UPC section are you using for venting? If combination waste and vent, did you get advance approval as required by 910.2?

I believe all the venting methods other than combination waste and vent will require that the trap outlet be at the elevation of the trunk line. That is, the fall between the trap outlet and the the "crotch" of the wye (so including the side branch portion of the wye) is limited to one pipe diameter. Otherwise your trap can siphon.

Combination waste and vent (which I'm not super familiar with) does allow the 45 degree section in your first picture today, but would require that your trap and everything downstream be two pipe sizes larger than your fixture tailpiece.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

Neither of those work. As Wayne said your shower branch should be parallel elevation wise with your "trunk". Instead of the two way cleanout being your vent takeoff, you need a common wye with a street 45 glued into it for the vent. After the vent then a common glue trap to line up with your shower drain.

 

[Gundraw]

To answer some questions:
Yes, I was approved and was informed to do floor drains as a combination waste vent as outlined in 910 and found this guide (Combination Waste/Vent).

The vertical two way is to avoid not being able to clear the trap and to provide cleanout access for the branch.

If the traps have to be at the level of the trunk, this would certainly alleviate being able to use an apparatus like this then:

I was trying to emulate this only with big diameter pipe to allow cleanout for large amounts of water (wash bay).

Are these branch connections being 45d down (as in lower elevation) a problem in this setup?

 

[wwhitney]

Yes, I was approved and was informed to do floor drains as a combination waste vent as outlined in 910 and found this guide (Combination Waste/Vent).

OK, see page 20 for the drain sizing based on the trap size. A floor drain with 2" vertical outlet gets a 3" trap and 3" branch. A floor drain with a 3" vertical outlet gets a 4" trap and 4" branch.

And see page 25 for the allowance for 45 degree vertical offsets.

The vertical two way is to avoid not being able to clear the trap and to provide cleanout access for the branch.

I think you'll need to use a conventional trap followed by a 2-way cleanout in the conventional orientation.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

OK, see page 20 for the drain sizing based on the trap size. A floor drain with 2" vertical outlet gets a 3" trap and 3" branch. A floor drain with a 3" vertical outlet gets a 4" trap and 4" branch.

And see page 25 for the allowance for 45 degree vertical offsets.


I think you'll need to use a conventional trap followed by a 2-way cleanout in the conventional orientation.

Cheers, Wayne

Intresting the comments on page 25 in regards to offsetting the branch line on 45s and If you read the part about a tail piece being as short as practical (up to max of 2 ft) it seems to encourage it as short as it can and therefore the way its worded encourage offsetting the branch line. So say you had a kinda long tailpiece like 15 inches thats not as short as practical it would want that branch line offset , perhaps not mandate but prefer. Id never thought that

 

[Gundraw]

As the slope puts the trunk deeper, I have tried to utilize the hookup as shown on page 26:

However, for this drain, it is simply too close to the trunk to allow the horizontal run leading into the trunk with a 45 wye laid flat. I didn't know if what I showed was somehow inferior to this connection.

I understand the tailpiece condition, as well as conventional cleanout fitting as you have suggested.

 

[wwhitney]

However, for this drain, it is simply too close to the trunk to allow the horizontal run leading into the trunk with a 45 wye laid flat.

What constraints do you have in the picture? Location of the cleanout riser? How far downstream can that wye to the trunk be?

Because absent any of those constraints, you certainly can do something like the diagram you excerpted, except after the 45 drop you end up parallel to the trunk, rather than perpendicular. E.g. fittings in this order, pipe segments omitted:

Floor drain with 2" vertical outlet
3x2 reducing bushing
3" trap, with outlet pointed parallel to the trunk
3" 2-way clean-out fitting
45 degree elbow to turn downward
45 degree elbow to turn horizontal at trunk elevation
45 degree elbow to turn towards the trunk
Horizontal wye at the trunk

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Gundraw]

Wayne,

yes, the only issue is this drain SHOULD reside about 1 ft away from the trunk. I think I see what you are referring to. Are you suggesting that my way of dumping in with the rolled up wye on the trunk is not as good of a solution Doing it the way you described should work if I move the drain a little further away.

Thanks!

 

[Jeff H Young]

put your wye farther away from the drain center to allow space. rolling wyes up and some of your ideas are good but dont follow code whether inspector catches it or cares or whether function is affected I (we) probebly dont know with certainty I havent bastardized every code to know whether it will work. I hope its easy to move the wye do your thing and get signed off by inspector

 

[wwhitney]

yes, the only issue is this drain SHOULD reside about 1 ft away from the trunk

Assuming you can move the final wye to the trunk downstream as required, no problem. For example:

Say the trunk and the trap are both 3". Then the u-bend of the trap has a center to center of about 6-1/2". So that lets you adjust the distance (in plan, i.e. ignoring elevation) between the trap outlet (which would be parallel to the trunk in the stack up I listed) by 6-1/2" either way. Everything from the trap outlet to the final 45 before the wye would be in a single vertical plane that is parallel to the trunk.

If you use a wye and street 45 at the trunk, in 3" that gives you an offset of 5.83". So one option is to choose the u-bend orientation and elevation of the final 45 outlet so that the outlet is parallel to the trunk and 5.83" away. Or if you use a regular 45 and a wye with the hubs touching, that makes an offset of 6.89". So you can also make the final 45 outlet 6.89" or more away from the trunk, and adjust the length of the pipe segment between the final 45 and the wye accordingly.

If the trunk is 4", and the trap 3" or 4", those will give you different numbers, but the idea is the same.

Cheers, Wayne