Drain options

[Evan71]

I am trying to redo the drain line for my softener. Currently the drain dumps into the sump pit and I would really like to get it into the sewer. The sewer line is in the joists almost directly over the top of the softener. It appears I have about 4" of clearance from the top of the sewer line to the bottom of the upstairs subfloor. Is this enough room to tie an air gap into? Do I really need to add an AAV in as well?

Appreciate your help

 

[Bannerman]

To prevent sewer gas from entering the living space, a 'P' trap is necessary.

Because the drain line directly from the softener is pressurized, pressure will be discharged through the air gap device and so drainage will then continue to flow to sewer by gravity. As such, a length of riser pipe to accept and absorb the fast flow from the softener is usually required before the 'P' trap. The riser length above the P trap will be typically 30"-36".

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Evan71]

To prevent sewer gas from entering the living space, a 'P' trap is necessary.

Because the drain line directly from the softener is pressurized, pressure will be discharged through the air gap device and so drainage will then continue to flow to sewer by gravity. As such, a length of riser pipe to accept and absorb the fast flow from the softener is usually required before the 'P' trap. The riser length above the P trap will be typically 30"-36".

I would plan on the p-trap, forgot to mention that. Since I only have a few inches above the sewer line I would not be able to do a riser.

Guessing I need to look at other options?

 

[Old]

Do you happen to have a washing machine standpipe near by? You could drain to the washing machine drain with an air gap adapter

 

[Evan71]

Do you happen to have a washing machine standpipe near by? You could drain to the washing machine drain with an air gap adapter

The washing machine is directly above the softener on the main floor. Getting to the main floor level means I would be exceeding the 8' from floor requirement of the softener. If you look at my original picture you can see the ABS pipe going up to the washer.

Is there a fitting I could cut in there to make it work?

 

[John Gayewski]

No. You can't drain (and you really don't want to drain) into that horizontal piping.

Find where it turns vertical and build something off of that.

 

[Evan71]

No. You can't drain (and you really don't want to drain) into that horizontal piping.

Find where it turns vertical and build something off of that.

Here is a little closer shot of the pipe going vertical. There is not a lot of clearance to add a riser and air gap in the joists.

How much riser do I need?

 

[wwhitney]

Does the sewer line (actually that's the building drain) exit the house at the elevation of the joists, or does it turn down elsewhere in the basement?

If the latter, you would need to put in a standpipe and trap at that location, and run your softener output over there.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

Here is a little closer shot of the pipe going vertical. There is not a lot of clearance to add a riser and air gap in the joists.

How much riser do I need?

View attachment 82845

Not what I meant. Whitney is what I meant. You circled another horizontal drain. You need a pipe that runs up and down to add onto.

 

[Treeman]

No. You can't drain (and you really don't want to drain) into that horizontal piping.

Find where it turns vertical and build something off of that.

I see standpipe drains attached to horizontal sewer drains all the time in my region*, similar to this picture:
Member Reach states that this should have a vent.

EDIT: * Installed by licensed plumbers (my son's 10 yr. old home has one). Also, not questioning the pros here, but questioning why I see so many supposed code violations installed by hired, licensed plumbers. Disheartening.

 

[John Gayewski]

I see standpipe drains attached to horizontal sewer drains all the time in my region, similar to this picture:
View attachment 82862

Not legal or sanitary. Also you don't have the space.

 

[John Gayewski]

I see standpipe drains attached to horizontal sewer drains all the time in my region, similar to this picture:
View attachment 82862

That is a picture you'd see on one of those Facebook pages about bad plumbing.

 

[Treeman]

That is a picture you'd see on one of those Facebook pages about bad plumbing.

That's my gripe, also added to my edit above. We homeowners pay big bucks to hire licensed trades people and still get bad installs. The trades are stymied by regulations, codes, high overhead (insurance, licenses, tools, training, etc.) and we laypeople are challenged to get good installers. Sorry for the rant, but I wish the situation was better.

 

[Old]

The washing machine is directly above the softener on the main floor. Getting to the main floor level means I would be exceeding the 8' from floor requirement of the softener. If you look at my original picture you can see the ABS pipe going up to the washer.

Is there a fitting I could cut in there to make it work?

Unless you have very low water pressure the drain will work fine if you go a few feet over 8'. If the washing machine drain is directly above it would be easy to drill a hole in the floor and run the drain up to the washing machine standpipe. You would just use a simple air gap adapter at the standpipe like this https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...machine-wall-box-drain?variant=13250434793515
Or this- https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/mr-drain-air-gap-md-10a-1-5-or-2-standpipes

 

[Evan71]

Here is a little closer shot of the pipe going vertical. There is not a lot of clearance to add a riser and air gap in the joists.

How much riser do I need?

Sorry it is not clear what I circled in this picture. You should not be looking at the horizontal ABS in the foreground, but instead the drain that goes vertical behind it.

 

[John Gayewski]

Sorry it is not clear what I circled in this picture. You should not be looking at the horizontal ABS in the foreground, but instead the drain that goes vertical behind it.

On the left side of this picture there is a pipe that looks like it's running down the wall. What is that.

 

[Evan71]

On the left side of this picture there is a pipe that looks like it's running down the wall. What is that.

It is for the sump pump.

 

[wwhitney]

It is for the sump pump.

So how about the building drain, at what elevation does it exit the house? If it's near the floor joists, you have no way to tie the softener drain into it within the basement. You will need an airgap, standpipe, and vent for the connection.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Evan71]

So how about the building drain, at what elevation does it exit the house? If it's near the floor joists, you have no way to tie the softener drain into it within the basement. You will need an airgap, standpipe, and vent for the connection.

Cheers, Wayne

Building drain is about 15'-20' feet further and exits the basement about 4' off the floor.

 

[wwhitney]

Building drain is about 15'-20' feet further and exits the basement about 4' off the floor.

So there you go. There must be a vertical section between the drain in the joist bay and the drain 4' off the floor. To that vertical section you add a san-tee or wye, a vent (could be an AAV if allowed in your area), and a standpipe. Then you run the softener discharge over to the top of the standpipe and connect it with an airgap.

To my understanding the softener discharge is pressurized. So if you want to keep the softener discharge out of the way, you can run it up to the bottom of the joists (or in a joist bay), slope it downward at 2% as it runs horizontally to the standpipe location, and then turn down to the air gap.

Cheers, Wayne