Do I need to use timed regen on a metered system

Users who are viewing this thread

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
I recently did a DIY install of a Springwell water softener. It’s a metered 32,000 grain system. It’s only me and my wife and we are averaging about 110 gallons per day, and our water test reported our hardness as 12 gpg. In addition to being metered it is also set to regen every 14 days if the metered demand hasn’t been met. I’m finding that we still have about 1000 gallons of treated water left when it regens at the 14 day mark. Can I just bump up the timed regen to something like 30 days so that it will always uses the metered settings, or is there a reason I should leave it at 14 days?
Thanks!
Steve
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,797
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Probably. City water, or well water with significant iron?

After doing that, watch the residual hardness after the first 2 weeks. You seem to be getting a lot of softening out of a 1 cuft softener.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
To achieve efficient operation, a softener containing 1 cubic foot resin (32,000 grains total capacity) will usually be programmed to regenerate when 24,000 grains capacity has been consumed as that will require only 8 lbs salt each cycle.

Assuming your water source is municipal and the water hardness does not exceed 12 grains per gallon, then your current daily average softening load will be (110 gallons X 12 gpg =) 1,320 grains/day.

With a usable capacity setting of 24,000 grains / 1,320 = ~18 days worth of capacity - 1-day water consumption as Reserve Capacity = an estimated regeneration frequency of every 17 - 18 days.

As municipal supplied water will be chlorinated, any ferrous (dissolved) iron will be converted to ferric iron so there will be no dissolved iron to accumulate on the resin granules so the regeneration frequency may be as long as 30-days without issue or concern.

If your water source is municipal, suggest reprogramming your softener's capacity setting to 24,000 grains, the reserve setting to 110-gallons, and the salt dose to 8 lbs total. The days over-ride setting may be increased to 28-days to fource a regeneration cycle to occur at 28-days in case you are away or otherwise utilize less water than usual resulting in no regeneration occurring before 28-days has passed.
 
Last edited:

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
To achieve efficient operation, a softener containing 1 cubic foot resin (32,000 grains total capacity) will usually be programmed to regenerate when 24,000 grains capacity has been consumed as that will require only 8 lbs salt each cycle.

Assuming your water source is municipal and the water hardness does not exceed 12 grains per gallon, then your current daily average softening load will be (110 gallons X 12 gpg =) 1,320 grains/day.

With a usable capacity setting of 24,000 grains / 1,320 = ~18 days worth of capacity - 1-day water consumption as Reserve Capacity = an estimated regeneration frequency of every 17 - 18 days.

As municipal supplied water will be chlorinated, any ferrous (dissolved) iron will be converted to ferric iron so there will be no dissolved iron to accumulate on the resin granules so the regeneration frequency may be as long as 30-days without issue or concern.

If your water source is municipal, suggest reprogramming your softener's capacity setting to 24,000 grains, the reserve setting to 110-gallons, and the salt dose to 8 lbs total. The days over-ride setting may be increased to 28-days to fource a regeneration cycle to occur at 28-days in case you are away or otherwise utilize less water than usual resulting in no regeneration occurring before 28-days has passed.
I don’t know if it makes a difference, but we are on a well. Iron tested at .318 Mg/L
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,797
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I don’t know if it makes a difference, but we are on a well. Iron tested at .318 Mg/L
That makes a difference. You should at least be taking steps to help the softener deal with iron by itself. The presence of iron is the main reason that DO is set shorter I think. I don't know what the relationship is.

I would add something with the salt, beyond using the special iron treating salt.

Alternatives to special iron-treating salt include a phosphoric acid dispenser (ResCare for example), adding citric acid, or Iron Out.

What is your hardness? In addition to the measured hardness, you should add another 1.58 (rounded up to 2) grains of hardness beyond what the measured hardness is, to compensate for the iron.
 
Last edited:

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
That makes a difference. You should at least be taking steps to help the softener deal with iron by itself. The presence of iron is the main reason that DO is set shorter I think. I don't know what the relationship is.

I would add something with the salt, beyond using the special iron treating salt.

Alternatives to special iron-treating salt include a phosphoric acid dispenser (ResCare for example), adding citric acid, or Iron Out.

What is your hardness? In addition to the measured hardness, you should add another 1.58 (rounded up to 2) grains of hardness beyond what the measured hardness is, to compensate for the iron.
Okay, I was under the impression that .318 Mg/L of iron was minuscule and didn’t need any special treatment, not even iron treating salt. Is that not the case? My hardness is 12 gpg.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,797
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I think that is not the case -- you may not need iron handling salt, but I would consider a batch process upon periodically. What period? I don't know. Do you get any iron discoloring in your toilet tanks? Do strangers taste iron in your softened water?

They draw the line at 0.3 mg/l (same as 0.3 ppm). So you are very near the line.

For now, I would measure the hardness of your softened water on day 14.
 

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
I think that is not the case -- you may not need iron handling salt, but I would consider a batch process upon periodically. What period? I don't know. Do you get any iron discoloring in your toilet tanks? Do strangers taste iron in your softened water?

They draw the line at 0.3 mg/l (same as 0.3 ppm). So you are very near the line.

For now, I would measure the hardness of your softened water on day 14.
We just recently bought the house, and none of the fixtures had any iron staining, and we don’t notice any taste or smell. There was calcium buildup on the faucets and shower heads. Also made our skin and hair dry which is why I installed the softener.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,797
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I would get a Hach 5-B. You could not only confirm raw water hardness, you could also check residual hardness.

With 3 decimal points in your iron number, I expect you had a lab water test.

So new softener. Good deal.

Did you look inside of the toilet tank (under the lid)? That is where the long-term indication would be.

Anyway, do some reading, maybe checking for posts in this forum that contain
iron citric
iron phosphoric

Don't bother using the forum search for "Iron Out", since the search ignores search words shorter than 4 letters.
 

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
To achieve efficient operation, a softener containing 1 cubic foot resin (32,000 grains total capacity) will usually be programmed to regenerate when 24,000 grains capacity has been consumed as that will require only 8 lbs salt each cycle.

Assuming your water source is municipal and the water hardness does not exceed 12 grains per gallon, then your current daily average softening load will be (110 gallons X 12 gpg =) 1,320 grains/day.

With a usable capacity setting of 24,000 grains / 1,320 = ~18 days worth of capacity - 1-day water consumption as Reserve Capacity = an estimated regeneration frequency of every 17 - 18 days.

As municipal supplied water will be chlorinated, any ferrous (dissolved) iron will be converted to ferric iron so there will be no dissolved iron to accumulate on the resin granules so the regeneration frequency may be as long as 30-days without issue or concern.

If your water source is municipal, suggest reprogramming your softener's capacity setting to 24,000 grains, the reserve setting to 110-gallons, and the salt dose to 8 lbs total. The days over-ride setting may be increased to 28-days to fource a regeneration cycle to occur at 28-days in case you are away or otherwise utilize less water than usual resulting in no regeneration occurring before 28-days has passed.
I’m not sure how the settings on my softener relate to lbs of salt used. Here are my current settings.
Grains: 32,000
Reserve: 10%
Hardness: 14 gpg
Backwash: 10 minutes
Brine draw / slow rinse: 60 minutes
Rapid Rinse: 10 minutes
Brine Refill: 10 minutes
Regen Override: 14 days

How many lbs of salt will this use each regen? And since it’s been a couple of weeks since I made the original post, my goal is to increase the regen override so that I’m primarily only using metered regen.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
Increase the Hardness setting to 15 grains per gallon to anticipate some additional capacity being utilized beyond that needed to remove 12 gpg hardness and 0.318 ppm ferrous iron.

You didn't specify the Brine Line Flow Control rate (normally stated on a label located nearby to the brine tube connection).

Assuming the BLFC flow rate is 0.5 GPM, your current 10-minute Brine Fill setting will result in 5-gallons water entering the brine tank during each regeneration cycle. As 3 lbs salt will be dissolved for each 1-gallon, the current BF setting will result in 15-lbs salt being dissolved each cycle. In addition to an insufficient quantity of salt to regenerate the full 32,000 grains capacity (would require ~20 lbs salt), 32,000 grns usable capacity from 1 ft2 resin is not realistically achievable since resin becomes worn and broken over time. Smaller and lighter resin granules will be flushed to drain during ongoing regeneration cycles, thereby resulting in the total resin capacity to be less than 32K grains over the resin's lifespan.

To program a more realistic usable capacity while also increasing salt efficiency, reduce the Capacity setting to 24,000 grains, and reduce the Brine Fill setting to 6-minutes. 6 minutes X 0.5 GPM = 3 gallons fill X 3 lbs/gallon = 9 lbs dissolved salt. 24,000 / 9 lbs = 2,667 grains per lb Hardness Reduction Efficiency.

If your actual BLFC rate is an alternate rate, then the Brine Fill setting will need to be adjusted to compensate. For instance, if the BLFC rate is 0.25 GPM, then the Brine Fill setting will need to be 11-minutes to dissolve 8.25 lbs salt.

Because more of the resin's capacity was likely being depleted than was being regenerated, after adjusting the settings, use a bucket to add 1-1.25 gallons additional water to the brine tank, wait 1-hr to allow additional salt to dissolve and then perform a manual regeneration. The additional brine will result in additional depleted capacity to be restored, thereby resulting in lower ongoing hardness leakage through the resin even as subsequent automatic regeneration cycles are almost due to occur.

The current reserve setting is based on 10% of the 32,000 gr capacity setting. Suggest changing the Reserve setting to 150 gallons for 2-ppl.

The 60 gallons per day per person is an average usual water consumption estimate for home's equipped with low flush toilets and efficient fixtures. If your actual water consumption differs, the Reserve setting maybe adjusted as appropriate. The 150 gallon suggestion instead of 120 gallons should reduce the potential for more capacity to be used than will be regenerated, in case the final day before regeneration is laundry day and so more water than average is utilized that day.
 
Last edited:

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
Increase the Hardness setting to 15 grains per gallon to anticipate some additional capacity being utilized beyond that needed to remove 12 gpg hardness and 0.318 ppm ferrous iron.

You didn't specify the Brine Line Flow Control rate (normally stated on a label located nearby to the brine tube connection).

Assuming the BLFC flow rate is 0.5 GPM, your current 10-minute Brine Fill setting will result in 5-gallons water entering the brine tank during each regeneration cycle. As 3 lbs salt will be dissolved for each 1-gallon, the current BF setting will result in 15-lbs salt being dissolved each cycle. In addition to an insufficient quantity of salt to regenerate the full 32,000 grains capacity (would require ~20 lbs salt), 32,000 grns usable capacity from 1 ft2 resin is not realistically achievable since resin becomes worn and broken over time. Smaller and lighter resin granules will be flushed to drain during ongoing regeneration cycles, thereby resulting in the total resin capacity to be less than 32K grains over the resin's lifespan.

To program a more realistic usable capacity while also increasing salt efficiency, reduce the Capacity setting to 24,000 grains, and reduce the Brine Fill setting to 6-minutes. 6 minutes X 0.5 GPM = 3 gallons fill X 3 lbs/gallon = 9 lbs dissolved salt. 24,000 / 9 lbs = 2,667 grains per lb Hardness Reduction Efficiency.

If your actual BLFC rate is an alternate rate, then the Brine Fill setting will need to be adjusted to compensate. For instance, if the BLFC rate is 0.25 GPM, then the Brine Fill setting will need to be 11-minutes to dissolve 8.25 lbs salt.

Because more of the resin's capacity was likely being depleted than was being regenerated, after adjusting the settings, use a bucket to add 1-1.25 gallons additional water to the brine tank, wait 1-hr to allow additional salt to dissolve and then perform a manual regeneration. The additional brine will result in additional depleted capacity to be restored, thereby resulting in lower ongoing hardness leakage through the resin even as subsequent automatic regeneration cycles are almost due to occur.

The current reserve setting is based on 10% of the 32,000 gr capacity setting. Suggest changing the Reserve setting to 150 gallons for 2-ppl.

The 60 gallons per day per person is an average usual water consumption estimate for home's equipped with low flush toilets and efficient fixtures. If your actual water consumption differs, the Reserve setting maybe adjusted as appropriate. The 150 gallon suggestion instead of 120 gallons should reduce the potential for more capacity to be used than will be regenerated, in case the final day before regeneration is laundry day and so more water than average is utilized that day.
Thank you for the excellent information! Much appreciated
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Iron reduction and softening is highly pH dependent. Lower pH is good for effective and longer lasting iron reduction. Below 7 and resin tends to do fairly well with long term iron reduction. Above 7 and the results become less effective for the long term. There is no set number, but these are general guidelines. High pH and iron=resin fouling, low pH and iron equals less resin fouling.
 

at_hiker

New Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Traverse City, Michigan
Iron reduction and softening is highly pH dependent. Lower pH is good for effective and longer lasting iron reduction. Below 7 and resin tends to do fairly well with long term iron reduction. Above 7 and the results become less effective for the long term. There is no set number, but these are general guidelines. High pH and iron=resin fouling, low pH and iron equals less resin fouling.
My PH is 7.44
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,797
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
My PH is 7.44
Many add an acid to the brine tank. Rescare dispenser is one way. Layering in Iron Out is another, and is effective. Layering in citric acid smells better, if you are sensitive to the IO. Preferably wear your N95 COVID mask while layering in the IO.
 

TonyH

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Calgary AB
I recently did a DIY install of a Springwell water softener. It’s a metered 32,000 grain system. It’s only me and my wife and we are averaging about 110 gallons per day, and our water test reported our hardness as 12 gpg. In addition to being metered it is also set to regen every 14 days if the metered demand hasn’t been met. I’m finding that we still have about 1000 gallons of treated water left when it regens at the 14 day mark. Can I just bump up the timed regen to something like 30 days so that it will always uses the metered settings, or is there a reason I should leave it at 14 days?
Thanks!
Steve
I'd suggest you set the capacity about 70% of actual size and program accordingly. Ideal regeration interval is once a week. We are family of 3, softener size is 48K(1.5cu ft) I set the capacity at 32K and salt usage at 11 lbs. regenerate every 10 days. All is well.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks