Condensate neutralizer requirements

[Dpenz]

IPC 803.1 seems to require condensate dilution or neutralizing for acidic wastes from condensing appliances. In my county, though, this portion of the code seems not to be enforced. Some appliances, such as my tankless water heater, have integral neutralizers. Other appliances, such as my two condensing furnaces and newer model water heaters without integral neutralizers, have no neutralizer installed. My house is connected to the municipal sewer. I'm confident that all the drainage plumbing in my house and yard is PVC, but I do not know the materials used at the street and downstream. Should I be concerned about this situation? I tried to get clarification from the county, without success.

 

[Reach4]

If your drain lines are plastic, I would not worry about it. If copper, worry. If steel worry. If cast iron, probably worry.

So your drain lines are hidden from you, even if you look into the crawl space? If your house is from the 50s or before, you probably have some metal drain lines. 60s? Not sure.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dpenz]

I know my drainage piping is PVC and I'm not worried about that. I'm concerned about getting a bill from the county ten years from now, if they have to dig up and replace their corroded CI piping or deteriorated concrete manholes. The lack of neutralizing inside my house does violate the letter of the IPC. If this causes damage to the utility, am I liable even though (theoretically) county inspectors approved the work? My house was constructed in 2018.

Most of the time, incidental condensate flows will be soon diluted with other effluent. However, in wintertime, in the early hours of the morning, furnace and water heater condensate could be the only effluent flowing.

Condensing appliances are relatively new in this area (north Georgia). AFAIK, there have not been problems reported by the utility so far, but will corrosion problems become apparent after some years?

 

[Jadnashua]

I live in a row of townhouses. There's a CI main line that drains all of the units, but internally, the rest of the drains are PVC. Over the years, many of the units replaced their furnaces with condensing, HE units. We'll likely have to replace the main CI line, which will end up being fairly costly, and inconvenient, as the plumber will have to access all of the units. The suggestion was to replace it with PVC, but that line is essentially 200' long, and running through the garages, with potentially some really hot water from things like dishwashers or even washing machines (mine has a sanitizing cycle that I don't use much, but it discharges almost boiling water when you do), the coefficient of expansion of PVC over that length could cause it to expand way more than enough to put lots of stress on the whole thing and connections. I very much disagree with the use of PVC in this situation, but I also am getting lots of resistance to adding neutralizers, which would have likely prevented that now pending pipe replacement.

This is a rambling lead up to the fact that, regardless, it's a good idea to use a neutralizer on any condensing burner...you don't know what's downstream of it. Even if you never were identified at the source of any degradation of the public system, when it comes time to replace it, everyone will end up paying for it through higher rates.

 

[John Gayewski]

I live in a row of townhouses. There's a CI main line that drains all of the units, but internally, the rest of the drains are PVC. Over the years, many of the units replaced their furnaces with condensing, HE units. We'll likely have to replace the main CI line, which will end up being fairly costly, and inconvenient, as the plumber will have to access all of the units. The suggestion was to replace it with PVC, but that line is essentially 200' long, and running through the garages, with potentially some really hot water from things like dishwashers or even washing machines (mine has a sanitizing cycle that I don't use much, but it discharges almost boiling water when you do), the coefficient of expansion of PVC over that length could cause it to expand way more than enough to put lots of stress on the whole thing and connections. I very much disagree with the use of PVC in this situation, but I also am getting lots of resistance to adding neutralizers, which would have likely prevented that now pending pipe replacement.

This is a rambling lead up to the fact that, regardless, it's a good idea to use a neutralizer on any condensing burner...you don't know what's downstream of it. Even if you never were identified at the source of any degradation of the public system, when it comes time to replace it, everyone will end up paying for it through higher rates.

Why not line the cast? It's also costly but not as much of an inconvenience.

 

[John Gayewski]

We put neutralizers on all of our installs. This particular one I don't quite think is an optimal way to run the condensate piping, but it's working for now.

 

[Fitter30]

I live in a row of townhouses. There's a CI main line that drains all of the units, but internally, the rest of the drains are PVC. Over the years, many of the units replaced their furnaces with condensing, HE units. We'll likely have to replace the main CI line, which will end up being fairly costly, and inconvenient, as the plumber will have to access all of the units. The suggestion was to replace it with PVC, but that line is essentially 200' long, and running through the garages, with potentially some really hot water from things like dishwashers or even washing machines (mine has a sanitizing cycle that I don't use much, but it discharges almost boiling water when you do), the coefficient of expansion of PVC over that length could cause it to expand way more than enough to put lots of stress on the whole thing and connections. I very much disagree with the use of PVC in this situation, but I also am getting lots of resistance to adding neutralizers, which would have likely prevented that now pending pipe replacement.

This is a rambling lead up to the fact that, regardless, it's a good idea to use a neutralizer on any condensing burner...you don't know what's downstream of it. Even if you never were identified at the source of any degradation of the public system, when it comes time to replace it, everyone will end up paying for it through higher rates.

Its not how the piping will fail its when. Is their a townhouse association who pays for it? Since the pipe will fail from the inside out .