Cleanouts and vent question for new bathroom

[Schnabeltasse]

I originally posted this in the IPC Plumbing Code Questions section but haven’t gotten any hits there. Maybe this section is a better place. Re-posting since I couldn’t figure out if or how I could move my thread.


I’m in Indiana under 2006 IPC (with local amendments that don’t affect this topic).


I’m trying to plumb a bathroom in an addition I am building.


IPC states that in “horizontal waste or soil lines”, each change of direction over 45 degrees requires a clean out. Unlike UPC it does not use the “aggregate 135 degree” rule.


First off, is a trap arm considered a “waste or soil line” or does this rule only apply to branches (and building drain and sewer as separately called out in the code)?


I’m interpreting the IPC rule to mean that if I have a 90 degree turn, I would need a clean-out, but if I break it up into 2 separate 45 degree turn, I would not need one. Each change of direction would not be more than 45 degrees. Is my thinking correct?


Another somewhat related question: on a p-trap, if the bottom “u” is pivoted out of line of the inlet elbow, is that considered a change of direction or does it not matter since technically, the inlet elbow turns from horizontal to vertical where it drops into the “u”?


Below are a marked up picture and a sketch of my layout. Obviously, the pipes will run under the floor in the basement. I will have 3” pipe from the building entrance to the toilet at the end of the 3” run (running along the basement wall). There will be a clean-out just past the toilet and there is a clean-out outside where the 3” line transitions to a 4” line to the septic. The 3” line in the basement will have a vertical offset (via two 45’s) after it enters the basement to get closer to the ceiling (need to clear a doorway). After that I will have a 2“ stub for a future basement ejector, followed by the shower and tub drain (2“ all the way), and a 2“ line to a double vanity connected to the 3“ line before the toilet.


Here are some questions I have:

1. Is the sanitary tee ok to be in a 45 degree position? I’m thinking yes, because 45 degrees can be considered vertical.
2. Can I combine the two trap arms from shower and tub before the vent?
3. If the „over 45 degree needs clean–out“ rule applies to my trap arms, can I avoid them by breaking up the 90 and the combo with 45 degree fittings?
4. Should I connect the lavatories (on the wall across from the tub about 8 1/2 feet) into the tub line (replace the 45 before the trap with a wye) or directly into the 3“ line? Either way the lavs would have their own vent. If I connect them to the tub line I could add a clean-out in the wall below the lav connection that could serve as a clean-out for the tub line but I’m not sure if I’m allowed to drain them into the tub trap arm.
5. Can the vent that i have pictured for the shower/tub also serve as the vent for the toilet (which is about 9 feet past that vent)?
6. Does IPC require the total vent cross section to add up to the cross section of the building drain (3“ in my case)? In that case i would need another vent anyway so I would probably just add a 2“ vent closer to the toilet (green in my sketch).

I appreciate any suggestions and advice!
Thanks.

 

[James Henry]

- You don't need a clean-out because the trap is considered a clean-out.
- a waste line only carries water, a soil line carries crap.
- if you break it up into two 45s you don't need a clean-out.
- you can swivel a p-trap any direction.
- a santee on a 45 is ok.
- you can't combine the two trap arms because you can only have one fixture upstream of a wet vent.
- I need to take a break.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Schnabeltasse]

- You don't need a clean-out because the trap is considered a clean-out.
- a waste line only carries water, a soil line carries crap.
- if you break it up into two 45s you don't need a clean-out.
- you can swivel a p-trap any direction.
- a santee on a 45 is ok.
- you can't combine the two trap arms because you can only have one fixture upstream of a wet vent.
- I need to take a break.

Wow, thanks for all the answers And the picture markup. You have earned a break

Unfortunately, I don’t think I can run the trap arms the way you drew them and vent through the 3” line. The 3” line will be quite a bit lower than the trap arms since it will run along a wall under the joists. The trap arms need to run through the joists to conserve ceiling height in the basement. I think I can’t have more than the pipe diameter in rise from the vent to the trap so that wouldn’t work.

I have two other ideas though:

1) Could I use a double wye laying flat and connect each trap arm to one of the wye inlets on each side and take the vent off the center? I’d have to see if I have enough clearance under the bench to bring the vent into the wall at a 45 degree angle since it would start further from the wall. The bottom end of the double wye would drain into an elbow that connects to the wye in the 3” line.

2) Could I move the vent so that one of the trap arms joins the line after the vent and one upstream of it (see attached pic)? In that case, would it be ok to roll the combo fitting for the vent takeoff 45 degrees or would it have to point straight up?

Also, I think I have to put the vent for the toilet closer to the toilet since the lav drain from across the room will join the 3” pipe upstream of the tub/shower drains (the lavs will have their own vent).

Thanks!!

 

[James Henry]

You can't wet vent anything in your situation for a couple reasons and you need vents for your fixtures. you can offset the drains and vertical portions of the vents so their not in the way of the shower valves and tie them together up high so they don't interfere with the shower heads. How about this?

 

[Schnabeltasse]

You can't wet vent anything in your situation for a couple reasons and you need vents for your fixtures. you can offset the drains and vertical portions of the vents so their not in the way of the shower valves and tie them together up high so they don't interfere with the shower heads. How about this?

Thanks. The problem I have is getting the vent to the wall. The 3” pipe in the basement runs along a former outside wall that is quite thick. The pipe is too far away and there is too little vertical clearance to connect the trap arms for the shower and the tub and get the vent takeoff over to below the upstairs wall without running flatter than 45 degrees. The only place I have where I can bring the vents up is below the shower bench. That’s why I was trying to merge the tub and shower under the bench.
Below is another option I came up with. It has individual vents (1.5” each) for tub and shower that come up below the bench, then turn at 45 degrees into the wall where they eventually (6” above the tub) merge into a 2” vent that connects in the attic with the other vents.

I think I can get a vent for the toilet into the wall closer to the toilet since I don’t need a drain inlet in the same place so clearance should be enough.

Any issues with this setup?

Thanks again!

 

[Reach4]

You can't wet vent anything in your situation

Why can't the WC be wet vented by the 2x Lav under IPC?

 

[James Henry]

Thanks. The problem I have is getting the vent to the wall. The 3” pipe in the basement runs along a former outside wall that is quite thick. The pipe is too far away and there is too little vertical clearance to connect the trap arms for the shower and the tub and get the vent takeoff over to below the upstairs wall without running flatter than 45 degrees. The only place I have where I can bring the vents up is below the shower bench. That’s why I was trying to merge the tub and shower under the bench.
Below is another option I came up with. It has individual vents (1.5” each) for tub and shower that come up below the bench, then turn at 45 degrees into the wall where they eventually (6” above the tub) merge into a 2” vent that connects in the attic with the other vents.

I think I can get a vent for the toilet into the wall closer to the toilet since I don’t need a drain inlet in the same place so clearance should be enough.

Any issues with this setup?

Thanks again!

View attachment 61209

Looks good to me.

 

[James Henry]

Why can't the WC be wet vented by the 2x Lav under IPC?

He can't wet vent because he's dropping the drain lines into the main.

 

[Reach4]

He can't wet vent because he's dropping the drain lines into the main.

I think drain lines always get dropped into a main, so you probably mean something other than what I was thinking. If I understand correctly, the WC and 2x lav are the most upstream thing on this piece of 3 inch pipe, other than the cleanout.

 

[James Henry]

No vertical offsets on a wet vent.

 

[Schnabeltasse]

Thank you so much for the feedback. I will go with this layout. Hope to get to work on it this weekend. It’s weird, now that I work my real job from home (due to COVID lockdown) I have less time to work on my addition project in the evenings than when I was commuting to my office.

 

[Reach4]

No vertical offsets on a wet vent.

How about this?:

 

[Schnabeltasse]

Thanks. The problem I have is getting the vent to the wall. The 3” pipe in the basement runs along a former outside wall that is quite thick. The pipe is too far away and there is too little vertical clearance to connect the trap arms for the shower and the tub and get the vent takeoff over to below the upstairs wall without running flatter than 45 degrees. The only place I have where I can bring the vents up is below the shower bench. That’s why I was trying to merge the tub and shower under the bench.
Below is another option I came up with. It has individual vents (1.5” each) for tub and shower that come up below the bench, then turn at 45 degrees into the wall where they eventually (6” above the tub) merge into a 2” vent that connects in the attic with the other vents.

I think I can get a vent for the toilet into the wall closer to the toilet since I don’t need a drain inlet in the same place so clearance should be enough.

Any issues with this setup?

Thanks again!

View attachment 61209

Just wanted to report that I set it up like this and passed inspection a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks for all the help and great info I found on this forum!

On to the next stage of the build...