Can’t find local help for well issues

[Blake Lemmons]

Hi. I am new to this forum, though I have searched it a number of times. We bought a house on 8 acres about a year ago, 2 story and about 2700 daft with 2.5 baths. We are new to having wells. We have two wells, but the older we’ll was “turned off”, or so we thought, but it turns out the power wires running to that one were severed underground before we moved in. The well we get our water from is solar powered, when there is sun, and pumps into two 2500 gallon tanks, which then appear to be gravity fed to the house where we have a booster pump and what looks like maybe somewhere around a 50 gallon pressure tank. Our house has very little pressure aside from when the booster kicks in, but that pressure in the tanks only lasts a short bit. So like our new dishwasher barely cleans well, etc. I’ve tried getting service providers out but no one shows. One guy came out and replaced the pressure switch but that didn’t do anything. I am not sure if going from the original well to this solar, gravity one had anything to do with it, but all the booster pump, pressure tank, appear to have been set up for that, and maybe we just have the wrong set up now for the solar one? Again, we are totally new to wells and are learning as we go. I was just hoping someone would read this and maybe have an aha moment and know what we might try doing.

 

[Reach4]

Pressure tank could be shot. Read the label of the pressure tank for a model number.

It would usually be best to check and set the precharge air.

How about a photo of the pressure pump, pressure switch, and the input to the pressure tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Fitter30]

How full are 2500 gallon tanks and height difference between water level and pump? Have you ever valved the tanks off disconnected the pump piping open tanks and checked flow from each tank. Does your pump have any numbers on it and brand?

 

[Valveman]

Your booster pump should not be solar, and should give you all the pressure you need. Watch the gauge on the pump while using water. If the pressure is low and stays that way you have a problem or need a larger pump. If the pump is continually cycling between 30 and 50, that can be your problem. You may also have a clogged filter or partly closed valve.

 

[Reach4]

Our house has very little pressure aside from when the booster kicks in, but that pressure in the tanks only lasts a short bit.

1. How long is the pressure low before the booster pump kicks in?
2. How much elevation on the storage tanks compared to the house?
3. What pressure does does your booster pump kick on at?
4. What is the air precharge pressure on your booster pump? Usually you like close to zero psi on the water, but you could just have the pressure low to the unpumped pressure for this situation.
5. How about a photo of the booster pump, pressure switch, and the input to the pressure tank.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

Sorry for the delay everyone, i thought i'd get a notification of a response but didn't. The 2 2500 tanks are full, the solar well keeps them topped off pretty well. That whole set up looks fairly new.

1) We probably have good pressure for maybe 20 min, sometimes less, before you can really feel the drop.
2) The tanks are probably a good 10 or 15 higher in elevation than the house and are situated about 100 feet from the house also, behind our barn.
3) The pump is set to kick on at about 30spi I believe. It seems like it kicks on fairly accurately.
4) I am not sure what the precharge pressure is to be honest, or what that is referring to.
5) I'll go our and grab a photo of everything.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

How full are 2500 gallon tanks and height difference between water level and pump? Have you ever valved the tanks off disconnected the pump piping open tanks and checked flow from each tank. Does your pump have any numbers on it and brand?

They are pretty full. When you ask about the pump, is the booster pump you are referring to or the well? The tanks are a good 15 feet higher than the house and about 100 away from the house.

 

[Valveman]

If the pump kicks on at 30 it should kick off about 50. How large is your pressure tank? Watch the pressure gauge while you have good pressure for 20 minutes and then when there is not good pressure and see if the pump is cycling on and off between 30 and 50 or just going to low pressure?

 

[Reach4]

1) We probably have good pressure for maybe 20 min, sometimes less, before you can really feel the drop.

When you feel the drop, how long until the pressure comes back up? 1 second, 1 minute, or what? Is the delay a delay for the pump kicking on, or is it a delay for the pressure pump to start building the pressure?

The pump is set to kick on at about 30spi I believe. It seems like it kicks on fairly accurately.
4) I am not sure what the precharge pressure is to be honest, or what that is referring to.

When your booster pump (pressure pump) is turned off, and you run enough water to make the water pressure drop below 10 psi, measure the air pressure on the pressure tank using a tire pressure gauge. That is your air precharge number. For a jet pump as your pressure pump, you would usually set the air to about 4 or 5 psi below 30 psi. Use a compressor or tire pump to raise the pressure if necessary. A hand air pump will take a while. That precharge setting should let the pressure tank supply the water while the pressure pump is getting to building the pressure over 30.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

When you feel the drop, how long until the pressure comes back up? 1 second, 1 minute, or what? Is the delay a delay for the pump kicking on, or is it a delay for the pressure pump to start building the pressure?


When your booster pump (pressure pump) is turned off, and you run enough water to make the water pressure drop below 10 psi, measure the air pressure on the pressure tank using a tire pressure gauge. That is your air precharge number. For a jet pump as your pressure pump, you would usually set the air to about 4 or 5 psi below 30 psi. Use a compressor or tire pump to raise the pressure if necessary. A hand air pump will take a while. That precharge setting should let the pressure tank supply the water while the pressure pump is getting to building the pressure over 30.

The delay for the pressure coming back up is longer than a few minutes. You feel the pressure slowly going down, enough that the dishwasher won't actually clean. Then you feel and hear the pump kick on. The pressure tank is about 50 gallon or so. Maybe I just need a larger pressure tank? Do you think it could just be a plumbing issue? Just how the pipes are set? If you shower and someone flushes, the shower is goe for 30 seconds until the toilet finishes refilling. I read on amazon actually where a pump manufacturer responded to a persons question and said because they had a gravity fed setup, they should have a more powerful booster pump.

 

[Valveman]

A 50 gallon pressure tank only holds 15 gallons of water. A larger tank will just make pressure even lower. You still have not told us what the pressure gauge is doing while you say you have good pressure and when you don't? Can't help you without that info?????

 

[Blake Lemmons]

A 50 gallon pressure tank only holds 15 gallons of water. A larger tank will just make pressure even lower. You still have not told us what the pressure gauge is doing while you say you have good pressure and when you don't? Can't help you without that info?????

What do you mean? The pressure gauge is showing the pressure. The pressure gauge is high, around 50psi when it is good, then it is dropping as the pressure is low. When the pressure in the house is at its low point, the pressure on the gauge is low, around 30psi or so. The pressure simply does not maintain itself long enough to be of much use aside from getting a quick shower. But as far as allowing two things running at once, running the dishwasher, etc, it won't maintain to be useful for regular home use.

 

[LLigetfa]

But as far as allowing two things running at once, running the dishwasher, etc, it won't maintain to be useful for regular home use.

While folks often associate that as a pressure problem, in reality it is a flow problem. Either the pump or the piping does not allow enough flow to serve two or more uses.
You probably need a better pump but if the problem is the piping, a new pump won't fix that. Determine how much pressure the pump can put out and how many GPM it can sustain at that pressure. Raising the pressure switch from 30/50 to 40/60 might or might not help.

 

[Reach4]

he delay for the pressure coming back up is longer than a few minutes. You feel the pressure slowly going down, enough that the dishwasher won't actually clean. Then you feel and hear the pump kick on.

I think you are saying that the water pressure (at the gauge, or at a garden hose thread gauge elsewhere, or just judging by what the shower does) drops a lot below the 30 psi setting. This next part is important: what is the pressure when the pressure switch clicks on, and when does the pump start? If the pressure gauge clicks at 29 or 30, but the pump does not start for a minute or two, then suspect the start capacitor for the pump is failing. Repair that if you can, or replace the pump. If the pressure switch does not click for a minute or two after it should have, it could be that the nipple to the pressure switch is clogged, causing the pressure switch to not see the pressure drop for a while. I know you already put in a new pressure switch. If the nipple to the pressure switch is also shared by the gauge, the gauge would not tell the whole story. Consider putting a garden hose thread pressure gauge nearby (laundry tap, drain for WH, or the drain valve for the pressure tank). If the regular gauge reading lags the new gauge, suspect a clogged nipple.

But even after those things you still get water. Strange. That could be that you air precharge in the pressure tank is abnormally low. That allows that tank to have water to give at a low pressure. So after you sort out the clogged nipple vs start capacitor for the pump, set the air precharge to about 4 or 5 psi below your cut in (about 25 to 26 psi of air in your case).

 

[Valveman]

If the pressure gauge is going from 30 to 50 over and over (even slowly) while you are using water, then your pump is larger than you need. If the pressure just goes to 20 or 30 and stays there while you are using water, then you need a larger pump. Usually the pump is larger than needed and the cycling on and off between 30 and 50 makes the pressure seem low. In that case a simple Cycle Stop Valve (and a smaller tank) delivering a constant 45 PSI would be much stronger pressure than what you have now.

 

[Bannerman]

So like our new dishwasher barely cleans well, etc.

A dishwasher does not rely on plumbing pressure to clean dishes. Plumbing pressure flows a specific quantity of water into the bottom of the dishwasher. Once the reservoir is filled, an internal pump recirculates that water repeatedly through the spray arms and nozzles to flush debris from the dishes. That water is then pumped out to drain and is replaced with clean water a few times so the process is repeated. If your dishes are not clean, either the dishwasher may not be operating correctly, or it may not be fully filling with the correct quantity of water, or perhaps your well water contains minerals which are preventing the DW detergent from working effectively, in which case a water softener may be needed.

You seem most concerned with not being to operate multiple faucets at the same time. Perhaps your expectations are higher than your home's plumbing system is capable of flowing, or there maybe a flow restriction in the line after the pump. This could be a broken or partially closed valve or other plumbing device.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

If the pressure gauge is going from 30 to 50 over and over (even slowly) while you are using water, then your pump is larger than you need. If the pressure just goes to 20 or 30 and stays there while you are using water, then you need a larger pump. Usually the pump is larger than needed and the cycling on and off between 30 and 50 makes the pressure seem low. In that case a simple Cycle Stop Valve (and a smaller tank) delivering a constant 45 PSI would be much stronger pressure than what you have now.

I was looking at those also, the CSV option. Maybe I'll take a look at that again after documenting some more on what the gauge is doing regularly. Thanks.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

A dishwasher does not rely on plumbing pressure to clean dishes. Plumbing pressure flows a specific quantity of water into the bottom of the dishwasher. Once the reservoir is filled, an internal pump recirculates that water repeatedly through the spray arms and nozzles to flush debris from the dishes. That water is then pumped out to drain and is replaced with clean water a few times so the process is repeated. If your dishes are not clean, either the dishwasher may not be operating correctly, or it may not be fully filling with the correct quantity of water, or perhaps your well water contains minerals which are preventing the DW detergent from working effectively, in which case a water softener may be needed.

You seem most concerned with not being to operate multiple faucets at the same time. Perhaps your expectations are higher than your home's plumbing system is capable of flowing, or there maybe a flow restriction in the line after the pump. This could be a broken or partially closed valve or other plumbing device.

I was also thinking the same, that perhaps we have a plumbing issue and not really a pressure issue. Thanks.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

I think you are saying that the water pressure (at the gauge, or at a garden hose thread gauge elsewhere, or just judging by what the shower does) drops a lot below the 30 psi setting. This next part is important: what is the pressure when the pressure switch clicks on, and when does the pump start? If the pressure gauge clicks at 29 or 30, but the pump does not start for a minute or two, then suspect the start capacitor for the pump is failing. Repair that if you can, or replace the pump. If the pressure switch does not click for a minute or two after it should have, it could be that the nipple to the pressure switch is clogged, causing the pressure switch to not see the pressure drop for a while. I know you already put in a new pressure switch. If the nipple to the pressure switch is also shared by the gauge, the gauge would not tell the whole story. Consider putting a garden hose thread pressure gauge nearby (laundry tap, drain for WH, or the drain valve for the pressure tank). If the regular gauge reading lags the new gauge, suspect a clogged nipple.

But even after those things you still get water. Strange. That could be that you air precharge in the pressure tank is abnormally low. That allows that tank to have water to give at a low pressure. So after you sort out the clogged nipple vs start capacitor for the pump, set the air precharge to about 4 or 5 psi below your cut in (about 25 to 26 psi of air in your case).

Thanks, I will try all this.

 

[Blake Lemmons]

While folks often associate that as a pressure problem, in reality it is a flow problem. Either the pump or the piping does not allow enough flow to serve two or more uses.
You probably need a better pump but if the problem is the piping, a new pump won't fix that. Determine how much pressure the pump can put out and how many GPM it can sustain at that pressure. Raising the pressure switch from 30/50 to 40/60 might or might not help.

I will try this, thank you.