Can I replace this valve with a street 90?

[roldgold]

I am, admittedly a noob (this is my first post). I am planning on how to replace this main water shutoff gate valve in my new (to me) house.

I'd like to replace it with a ball valve, not another gate. Can I replace this valve with a street 90, up into a reduction fitting (to go from the 3/4 supply line to the 1/2 line in the house), and into a ball valve? I've heard that street 90s are a bad idea, but I can't find anything conclusive about them.

Attached are photos of the valve I'm planning on replacing.

Here's the street 90 I'd use: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...e-Brass-Street-Elbow-Fitting-802009/300096264

My concern with using a 90 sweat fitting is that it would protrude too far from the wall to connect to the existing vertical pipe, which would be ideal.

Thanks all!

 

[Michael Young]

I am, admittedly a noob (this is my first post). I am planning on how to replace this main water shutoff gate valve in my new (to me) house.

I'd like to replace it with a ball valve, not another gate. Can I replace this valve with a street 90, up into a reduction fitting (to go from the 3/4 supply line to the 1/2 line in the house), and into a ball valve? I've heard that street 90s are a bad idea, but I can't find anything conclusive about them.

Attached are photos of the valve I'm planning on replacing.

Here's the street 90 I'd use: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...e-Brass-Street-Elbow-Fitting-802009/300096264

My concern with using a 90 sweat fitting is that it would protrude too far from the wall to connect to the existing vertical pipe, which would be ideal.

Thanks all!

You're going to have a nip of copper once you take the valve loose. Buy a regular 1/2" copper 90. Go ahead and pick up some 1/2" couplings and a little piece of 1/2" copper pipe. remove the grounding clamp and move it up higher on the pipe (don't kill your ground). and yes. if you're not comfortable with sweating copper and think you might get in a bind. Buy a sharkbite cap (just in case)

 

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[roldgold]

You're going to have a nip of copper once you take the valve loose. Buy a regular 1/2" copper 90. Go ahead and pick up some 1/2" couplings and a little piece of 1/2" copper pipe. remove the grounding clamp and move it up higher on the pipe (don't kill your ground). and yes. if you're not comfortable with sweating copper and think you might get in a bind. Buy a sharkbite cap (just in case)

It's hard to tell in the pictures, but I think I'm going to have a female threaded coupler once I take the valve loose. That's been sweated on to the pipe and it's what the valve body is screwed into.

That was the basis for my street 90 suggestion. But regardless, it sounds like you're saying to use a sweat 90. Right?

 

[Sylvan]

I hate to break the bad news but it NOT a "GATE VALVE" what you have is a Globe valve and it takes a certain mindset to use a valve that has a washer on a water main.

Obviously the installer never read the book on valves taught in first year apprentice training.

Actually in civilized states it is against the DEP code to install them on a water main as they are prone to failure.

They should know a globe type pattern is used normally to THROTTLE the volume and globe valves are not known for positive shut off

On steam applications they throttle the amount of steam needed (Leslie) etc.

 

[roldgold]

I hate to break the bad news but it NOT a "GATE VALVE" what you have is a Globe valve and it takes a certain mindset to use a valve that has a washer on a water main.

Obviously the installer never read the book on valves taught in first year apprentice training.

Actually in civilized states it is against the DEP code to install them on a water main as they are prone to failure.

They should know a globe type pattern is used normally to THROTTLE the volume and globe valves are not known for positive shut off

On steam applications they throttle the amount of steam needed (Leslie) etc.

So sounds like it's a good thing I'm replacing it, then.

Is there anything I need to be aware of when removing the existing valve?

 

[GReynolds929]

The joint at the wall is either a union or compression fitting. It's highly unlikely that you'll find something to fit the union. If compression, ferrule and nut can be removed and new fitting soldered on.

 

[roldgold]

The joint at the wall is either a union or compression fitting. It's highly unlikely that you'll find something to fit the union. If compression, ferrule and nut can be removed and new fitting soldered on.

It sure looks like a female adapter to me, not a union or compression fitting.

See closer pictures:

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I think that is a Flare fitting at the wall. I wouldn't touch it til you have identified that fitting. If you can, I would shut off the water and pull that union apart to verify before I take any other aspect of it apart. Cutting and coupling the vertical should be a breeze tho if you need to remove the valve temporarily, but I wouldn't do anything to ruin it til you verify.

If that is a flare you won't be able to remove that nut without cutting the copper which won't leave you much room for anything else.

 

[Michael Young]

It's hard to tell in the pictures, but I think I'm going to have a female threaded coupler once I take the valve loose. That's been sweated on to the pipe and it's what the valve body is screwed into.

That was the basis for my street 90 suggestion. But regardless, it sounds like you're saying to use a sweat 90. Right?

It looks like a sweat 90 is going to give you the best fit. But it's tight. I'd pick up a few extra fittings just to save myself an extra trip to the supply house.

 

[Jeff H Young]

It never did look like a copper fip adapter to me . Piece of cake homeowner DIY ? maybe, I never saw a valve quite like it .
Tuttles mentioning the possibility of it being a flare made me chime in It just dosent look like a femaleadapter to me either

 

[roldgold]

If that is a flare you won't be able to remove that nut without cutting the copper which won't leave you much room for anything else.

Couldn't I just remove the valve, keep the flare, and connect the flare to a threaded coupler? Cutting the copper that close to the foundation wall makes me pretty uneasy.

So it would be:

pipe -> flare/possible female fip -> male adapter -> elbow -> valve -> rest of house

Perhaps the age contributes to the general confusion here? House is from the 50s and I have reason to believe that the valve is newer, but no reason to think the pipe or fitting is newer.

This could be my lack of experience speaking here, but I know for sure that the valve threads into something, whether it's a female fip or flare, so wouldn't a male adapter thread into whatever is there? Or is it best practice to replace whatever is there as well?

 

[roldgold]

This person here seems to be in a similar situation to me: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/reusing-1-flare-adapter.66936/post-630205

 

[Jeff H Young]

rold gold, it looks like that to me , hard to tell from here but I have a real good feeling it is. Id try to plan for a ball valve right there on the re build a flare by thread 90 then a short nipple a ball valve then a cx mip adapter and hook bak to the copper line

 

[roldgold]

thread 90

Something like this? https://www.ferguson.com/product/jo...ree-elbow-jp13986/3704598.html?searchIndex=13

 

[Jeff H Young]

thats not it Im thinking it needs to be a MALE FLARE x pipe threads so you can adapt to copper male or female works . 1/2 , 3/4 Ill leave you to tell the pipe sizes there I cant tell, I cant even guarantee its a flare but looks like it

 

[roldgold]

thats not it Im thinking it needs to be a MALE FLARE x pipe threads so you can adapt to copper male or female works . 1/2 , 3/4 Ill leave you to tell the pipe sizes there I cant tell, I cant even guarantee its a flare but looks like it

Now I think I'm following you.

Something more like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/LTWFITT...lare-Elbow-Fitting-5-Pack-HF5081205/313937182

Ignore the pipe sizes for now, just trying to get the right fittings in my head.

I appreciate your help by the way. And everyone's help!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I think this is the fitting that would replace the valve.

Legend Valve
313-304NL

 

[roldgold]

I think this is the fitting that would replace the valve.

Legend Valve
313-304NL

View attachment 98620

Thanks Tuttle! That does look right!

I am intrigued by this option as well, which looks like it might fit right in: https://my.legendvalve.com/ERP2Web/...k=2100500233:3100536594:3100536631:3100536634
Also intrigued by the idea of not having to sweat any pipe to make this repair...

I have not yet done any measurements to see if it fits in the same spot, but there is a datasheet for the dimensions that I can use.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The valve looks like it would work, but it would be upside down. If it were me I would install the 90, short length of brass nipple to a quality ball valve with drain cock then up to the existing copper... which will be a sweat fitting.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Ive dealt with flares very little, looks the same as the other fittings.
If you need to sweat the adapter on the pipe coming out the wall Id shit can this entire flare fitting stuff. and just sweat a conventinal copper 90 on and treat it like the copper it is