Can A Toilet Valve Cause A Major Leak?

[Scott0613]

Long story short.
I live in a three-story condominium, and my unit is on the second floor. The vacant unit above me, which is currently remodeled, had a major water leak that flooded my unit and continued down to the first floor. The owner claims the leak was caused by a stuck toilet valve. However, when I went upstairs to shut off the water, the bathroom floor in that unit was completely dry.

 

[Sylvan]

A leak can be hidden quite easily. Example: a hole in a lead bend below the finished floor.

A toilet running in a warm area, condensate can cause a lot of mold and water damage, especially if the insulation gets saturated.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

The owner claims the leak was caused by a stuck toilet valve.

I don't see how a stuck toilet flush valve or stuck toilet fill valve could cause flooding by itself. It seems likely to me that the overflow could keep up with a stuck fill valve. And if the overflow could not keep up, then the floor would be wet.

I think the stuck valve would have to be accompanied by a drain blockage and/or leak.

I don't know what the liability situation is.

When you say owner, I presume you mean the owner of the third floor condo, and not the condo corporation as represented by a board or manager. https://www.stratastic.com/post/und...-boards-property-management-and-condo-corpora

I don't know the liability situation, but I wonder if there is a boundary of responsibility. But if there is, I would suspect the third floor owner would like to blame stuff below the floor. A stuck fill valve would seem to point to the third floor condo owner as liable. I am just musing, and don't know how this stuff works.

 

[Sylvan]

Your correct

I had a case where a co op owner bought an apartment, and before moving in, they went on vacation to Florida.
There was a flood below, causing a lot of damage to a doctor's office below.

The apartment had a Fluidmaster 200 A, and I testified the following

1- This type of device was never allowed in NYC as it offered no backflow prevention.

2- The installer was a handyman and did not test the fluid master properly.

When I testified at the deposition, I stated that any decent installer would know to hold the float down and see if the incoming water would go down the Douglas valve overflow properly. Failure to do so would result in a major leak over time.

The co op buyers were held responsible even though they had not moved into the apartment as they were now the owners

 

[Sylvan]

Here is the case regarding a flood caused by a 200 A. I kicked the PE's butt

 

[Sylvan]

I shredded his testimony. After the jury awarded in my favor, he asked if we could work together. I respectfully declined. Check out his degrees

 

[Scott0613]

The owner is taking responsibility for the leak. He's not providing the condo association/property management with any proof regarding the cause, nor is he providing proof that he has insurance. Thats another story. The owner owns several apartments that he rents out in the city where I live.

 

[JohnCT]

I stated that any decent installer would know to hold the float down and see if the incoming water would go down the Douglas valve overflow properly.

So the Fluidmaster in this case delivered more water volume than the overflow could handle?

John

 

[Sylvan]

Any fill valve if not properly adjusted can cause an overflow

 

[Sylvan]

So the Fluidmaster in this case delivered more water volume than the overflow could handle?

John

Any fill valve if not properly adjusted can cause an overflow

 

[Reach4]

Any fill valve if not properly adjusted can cause an overflow

I think a stuck fill valve should make water go out the overflow. But I would also like to think that the overflow should be able to keep up with the incoming water flow, and the soil pipe should be able to carry away that flow.

So if the fill valve fills at 3 gpm when the float is low, I would like to think that over 4 gpm could flow down the overflow. Would I be expecting too much?

 

[JohnCT]

So if the fill valve fills at 3 gpm when the float is low, I would like to think that over 4 gpm could flow down the overflow. Would I be expecting too much?

I can only go on my 50 years of decidedly amateur plumbing (and electrical, heating, and AC, and tiling, and carpentry, and roofing...) experience from owning many rental properties, but I've never seen a toilet overflow from the top of the tank with one exception - a tenant stuffed a rag into the overflow and bent the float rod upward..

The only toilets that I've seen cause water damage were leaks on the inlet plumbing, the gasket between the tank and bowl, the wax gasket under the bowl, and people who continually flushed with the drain blocked up - but never because of a bad valve. I've seen bad valves or improperly adjusted valves/floats cause constant running and water waste, but I've never seen one overpower the overflow.

I'm not saying it can't happen and I certainly wouldn't debate Sylvan on that (what he's forgotten I'll never even know), but all I can say is that I've never seen it, and if it can happen, I've been fortunate enough not to see that happen thank God.

John

 

[Sylvan]

John, this was the second case I ever had where the overflow tube was overwhelmed.

The water pressure exceeded 80 psi, and the angle valve in both cases was fully opened.

In both cases, the fill valve failed to shut off. The old copper float had a leak and was more like an anchor than a float as it sank almost to the bottom of the tank.

The more recent one, the 200 A Disc (washer), was totally rotten and allowed full flow

 

[JohnCT]

John, this was the second case I ever had where the overflow tube was overwhelmed.

The water pressure exceeded 80 psi, and the angle valve in both cases was fully opened.

In both cases, the fill valve failed to shut off. The old copper float had a leak and was more like an anchor than a float as it sank almost to the bottom of the tank.

The more recent one, the 200 A Disc (washer), was totally rotten and allowed full flow

If you say it, I believe it. Thanks for the reply.

John

 

[Christie Sternee]

While a stuck toilet valve can cause leaks, it usually only overfills the tank or bowl. If the floor was dry, the leak probably came from a pipe or fitting somewhere else, not the valve itself.

 

[Scott0613]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

[Sylvan]

If you say it, I believe it. Thanks for the reply.

John

 

[Sylvan]

I finally found the lawsuit regarding a Fluidmaster. I proved my case with facts, not conjecture .engineers report and mine

 

[Sylvan]

This was a fun case, and I never expected such a large compensation for the doctor.The cases where children die are heartbreaking, and so are the terrible scalding cases I have been handed over the past 40+ years