Can a GFCI outlet "fail" (not trip) intermittently?

[TSPORT]

Hello all. I have an outlet in a powder room where we just plug in one of those air freshener thingys that melt the wax and occasionally a hair drier.
Sometime the outlet does not work and then mysteriously a week (or day, no rhyme or reason) later it will work.
This has been going on for a year or so. In the past I have pulled several of the outlets on the same circuit along with this one to check if they were installed w/ back-stabbed wiring or screws. All by screw and all connections tight. There is a GFCI outlet further down the circuit in the adjacent garage.
My question is this: Is it possible that the GFCI outlet can intermittently stop the current flow without actually tripping the outlet where it is necessary to reset it? I'm contemplating just replacing the GFCI outlet anyway as it is original to the house.
There is no flickering going on or any other activity that leads me to believe it is a loose wire.
The house was built in 1997 and no Mickey Mouse add-ons or odd modifications that I can see.
Thanks in advance, I appreciate the input.

 

[wwhitney]

Hello all. I have an outlet in a powder room where we just plug in one of those air freshener thingys that melt the wax and occasionally a hair drier.
Sometime the outlet does not work and then mysteriously a week (or day, no rhyme or reason) later it will work.

Could be as simple as the wipers in the receptacles that contact the prongs on the plug are weak/loose and not always making sufficient contact. Start by replacing the receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

outlet in a powder room where we just plug in one of those air freshener thingys that melt the wax and occasionally a hair drier. .... There is a GFCI outlet further down the circuit in the adjacent garage.

Is the outlet located in the powder room, an actual GFCI, or is supplied downstream from the GFCI located in the Garage, or is the powder room outlet not protected by a GFCI whatsoever? Your description does not make this clear.

If the only GFCI in that circuit is the one located in the Garage, which is actually further down after the PR as you stated, the garage GFCI will not be supplying power to the powder room outlet. For the garage GFCI to protect the powder room outlet when a ground fault is detected, the wiring for the PR outlet would need to be configured to obtain power as a downstream load from the garage GFCI.

Further to wwhitney's suggestion, if the PR outlet is a regular one, suggest replacing with a heavy duty outlet which will be equipped with more robust wipers. The hair dryer will likely have a high current demand which may have overheated and softened the wipers over time in a standard outlet, so they may not be gripping any plug's prongs as tightly as needed to provide a consistent and reliable connection.

 

[TSPORT]

Could be as simple as the wipers in the receptacles that contact the prongs on the plug are weak/loose and not always making sufficient contact. Start by replacing the receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks, Wayne. The GFCI outlet downstream is dead when this occurs so I'm thinking that is not the case. Appreciate the reply!

 

[TSPORT]

Is the outlet located in the powder room, an actual GFCI, or is supplied downstream from the GFCI located in the Garage, or is the powder room outlet not protected by a GFCI whatsoever? Your description does not make this clear.

If the only GFCI in that circuit is the one located in the Garage, which is actually further down after the PR as you stated, the garage GFCI will not be supplying power to the powder room outlet. For the garage GFCI to protect the powder room outlet when a ground fault is detected, the wiring for the PR outlet would need to be configured to obtain power as a downstream load from the garage GFCI.

Further to whitney's suggestion, if the PR outlet is a regular one, suggest replacing with a heavy duty outlet which will be equipped with more robust wipers. The hair dryer will likely have a high current demand which may have overheated and softened the wipers over time in a standard outlet, so they may not be gripping any plug's prongs as tightly as needed to provide a consistent and reliable connection.

Thanks, Bannerman. The powder room outlet is not GFCI. The GFCI outlet is in the garage. I forgot to mention that the GFCI outlet in the garage is also dead (but not tripped) when the powder room outlet is dead. Either they both work or neither works. I'm not 100% certain that the garage is after the powder room in the circuit. It may be before. I just figured it was after since the garage is the furthest place from the circuit breaker box. There are wires going in & out both sides of the powder room outlet. Can't remember for the garage outlet. Would the wipers on the outlet have any effect on outlets downstream?
No issue replacing the outlet in the powder room with a new, heavy duty one.

 

[bigb56]

If they both go dead at the same time you have a bad connection, it's going to be between the one closest to the panel and the panel. It's likely in another box, even in the first GFCI. Since they are both on the same circuit the first one should be wired to the line side only. Could be loose connection on that one. Once you change the first one in the string to line only you must protect all downstream outlets that require protection with GFCIs since they are no longer protected by that first one. (Usually all the baths will be protected by a single GFCI in one of the baths).

(Sometimes DIY folks will add GFCIs downstream of an existing one without changing the existing one to line only which can cause confusion) .

Map out your circuit by killing everything except that circuit then go check to see what works and mark it with blue tape. You can just shut off that one circuit but without going into detail it's usually easier and less confusing to shut everything else off. Once it's mapped out you'll know which boxes to check.

There have been some pretty significant changes to GFCIs since 1997 so it would be worthwhile to replace them, although I don't think that is your problem.

 

[Fitter30]

Better gfic outlets show a light when tripped put one in bathroom feed the other with the bathroom.

 

[Afjes]

If the PR receptacle goes out and comes back by itself and you do not have to reset a GFCI elsewhere on the circuit or reset a circuit breaker to this circuit you are looking at a bad connection.

The bad connection is not necessarily at that receptacle either. What I would do is to shut off all breakers other than the main breaker and the breaker that brings power to this receptacle. Then map out all receptacles and lights that are still working with only this one breaker on. Then turn all your other breakers back on. This will tell you for sure what receptacles and lights are on this breaker. When mapping out the circuit with the other breakers off do not limit yourself to only one area testing for live receptacles. You may find a receptacle or two that you did not know was on this circuit. Once you map out all of the receptacles turn off the breaker to this circuit and start pulling all the receptacles out one at a time and check for loose connections. If any receptacles are wired to the back (as in back-wired) move the wires to the screws instead. Once you check all of the receptacle's wiring then see if this happens again.

Unfortunately if you can recreate the failure of a receptacle at will you have to go thru troubleshooting methods and then wait to see if this solved the issue.

I will tell you though if this PR receptacle was protected by a GFCI upstream or GFCI breaker and it caused the gFCI to trip those darn cheap air fresheners are known to leak current which will trip a GFCI. GFCIs work on ground faults. It measures the current coming into the GFCI and compares the current going out of the GFCI, if the current going out is not within 4 to 6 milliamps difference the GFCI will trip. This is different from a short. Do a little research on ground faults and how GFCIs detect them and what may cause them.

If this PR receptacle is protected by a GFCI upstream then try unplugging that air freshener and see if you end up with the same problem over time.

 

[Chucky_ott]

To determine if the PR outlet is protected by the garage GFCI, plug in a lamp in the PR and then press the test button on the GFCI. If the lamps shuts off, then the PR outlet is downstream of the garage GFCI. Check other outlets in the other bathrooms too.

In my house, I have three bathrooms on two floors. All three outlets are protected by one GFCI in the downstairs PR. I figure copper wiring was cheaper than GFCI outlets back in 1986.