Best Toilet for Large BMs

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achtung_Mike

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Hi,

We are replacing an old toilet (pre-low-flow) that would clog often when my son used the restroom. He apparently produces large stools that the toilet cannot handle. I see the Toto is kind of the favorite here, but it seems too expensive to me. I was quoted $500+ and just can't spend that much. I saw in a similar thread that Terry recommended the Kohler Highline Classic pressure-asissted toilet for this sort of issue, the one I am looking at is http://www.homedepot.com/p/KOHLER-H...-Elongated-Toilet-in-White-K-3493-0/202060403.

Could someone really give me a definitive answer as to whether the Kohler is the way to go, or would an American Standard Champion 4 work better as I believe it has a larger trapway? Is there any other toilet that would be recommended for this issue? Also should the new AS Vormax be considered better than the Champion 4?

Finally, does it matter if the toilet is bought from a big box store, Home Depot, or a plumbing supply company?

Thanks for all your help and this great forum!
 

jadnashua

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If your son is in the 1% or so with a medical problem and produces long, hard stools, probably the best toilet for that is made by Caroma which has the largest trapway of any readily available toilet. Don't confuse flapper valve size with trapway size. It's not only the diameter of the trapway that makes a difference, it's how it is shaped. Toilets that try to make sharp turns are very tough on longer, harder inputs! The Toto line has a much nicer pathway than most out there.

Do not confuse suggested list prices with actual street prices on Toto toilets. For a fair estimate of what is a good price, check out Terry's storefront. While he does not sell outside of his area (he does not ship), you can use that as a negotiation price locally. Many models that work quite well from Toto are a lot less than that $500 pricetag.
 

achtung_Mike

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Thanks, Jim. Could you tell me which Toto is considered the best at handling this issue? Also have you seen a place that sells Caroma toilets in the US?
 

jadnashua

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http://www.caromausa.com/ is where I'd start should you go that way.

If he truly is in that 1%, that is probably the best bet. If it's not that serious, keep in mind that there are still, and older ones often were, crappy toilets out there! It didn't take much to clog them. While it is hard to clog a Toto, nothing is impossible. One of the more popular ones is the Drake series (lots of different versions from 1.6 to 1.0gpf, different heights, and finishes. Terry has some recommendations, and you can find them with a search, and he'll probably chime in as well. He sells a LOT of toilets from most manufacturers, and gets a lot of feedback.
 

Terry

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Hi,

We are replacing an old toilet (pre-low-flow) that would clog often when my son used the restroom. He apparently produces large stools that the toilet cannot handle. I see the Toto is kind of the favorite here, but it seems too expensive to me. I was quoted $500+ and just can't spend that much. I saw in a similar thread that Terry recommended the Kohler Highline Classic pressure-asissted toilet for this sort of issue, the one I am looking at is

The pressure assist version of the Highline should work for you. The other option is the Caroma gravity toilets with the 3" and larger trapways.
I would not bother with TOTO in your case, or the American Standard 4 or 3.
We get these calls from around the country often. We get good feedback on the Kohler K-3493 and the Caroma for "large stool" medical issue problems.
For the other 99% out there, yes I do like many of the TOTO bowls. We just installed a Caroma one-piece in Seattle today for just this reason.

caroma-989900-02.jpg


caroma-989900-01.jpg


Seattle area.
Also the two-piece,
http://terrylove.biz/home/119-caroma-sydney-smart-305-elongated.html
 
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jadnashua

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When you get a good AS toilet, they tend to work almost as well as a Toto. Their defect rate, especially when bought from a big box store verses a plumbing supply store tends to be much higher than on any Toto.

There are two choices when dealing with a larger than normal BM...break it up, and a pressure assist has a chance, or pass it through, the Caroma is your best bet.
 

Gary Swart

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Toto has many models of toilets that compete with AS or Kohler. They do not make a pressure assist.
 

Terry

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Could you tell me how you think the American Std Champion 4 would stand up to this issue?

I answered that direct question already. Don't waste your time on the Champion 4 in this case. It may work for your friends at work without a medical condition, but you're not buying the toilet for them.

The homecenter will have the Kohler with presssure assist. That would be my homecenter choice.
 

rick k

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I have a similar issue with my 14 yr old son. Not sure if it's a medical issue, but since birth, he's been producing surprisingly large BMs. Finally decided to replace 3 toilets. After much research I bought a Drake II, installed it in the kids bathroom. On first use he plugged it. It's not excessive TP, it's a large diameter, long & hard stool. I've read many posts about better nutrition and more water, that's part of the solution but not largest cause. I'm looking for a toilet that can handle larger stools. It looks like the Caroma and Kohler pressure assist Highline are 2 options.

I like the concept of pressure assist; the ones in commercial restrooms seems to work very well. I'm concerned with the small Highline trapway of 2 1/4" and think that even with the assist, it's still likely to plug. Also unsure of mechanical reliability/complexity of pressure assist.

From reading, it sounds like the Caroma has the largest trapway (4"-3" on the outlet), but older posts mention smaller water surface area and harder to clean. Wondering if Caroma has corrected the surface area/cleanability issue.

Would like to get your recommendation what will reliably handle large BMs better, pressure assist small trap way (Highline) or gravity large trapway (Caroma). Thanks.
 

jadnashua

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Pressure assist requires the jet to help break things apart...that may not happen. A larger trapway has its advantages. Some people don't like the (short duration) noise of a pressure assisted toilet, especially if it gets used late at night. Conventional, gravity assisted toilets tend to be a lot quieter and less abrupt. Both designs eventually need to be serviced...a gravity assist tends to be less expensive than a pressure assisted one. Long AND hard is a double-whammy.
 

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With that in mind, the Caroma may be better.
I have also sold the Kohler Highline with the Flushmate pressure assist for that.

The Caroma has the largest trapway and uses gravity. They will flush a potato.
The Kohler with Flushmate, has a pressure unit pushing and breaking things up.
You should be able to find this locally
Kohler Highline with Fushmate
K-3493

The downside to the Caroma is cleaning. The downside to the Flushmate is noticable noise. However, you don't have much choice with your requirements here.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....injury-parkinsons-current-toilet-clogs.16796/

caroma_305_horn.jpg


3" trapway on the Caroma 305 bowl. That's just crazy!!
http://terrylove.biz/home/119-caroma-sydney-smart-305-elongated.html
 
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rick k

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With that in mind, the Caroma may be better.
I have also sold the Kohler Highline with the Flushmate pressure assist for that.

The Caroma has the largest trapway and uses gravity. They will flush a potato.
The Kohler with Flushmate, has a pressure unit pushing and breaking things up.
You should be able to find this locally
Kohler Highline with Fushmate
K-3493

The downside to the Caroma is cleaning. The downside to the Flushmate is noticable noise. However, you don't have much choice with your requirements here.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....injury-parkinsons-current-toilet-clogs.16796/

caroma_305_horn.jpg


3" trapway on the Caroma 305 bowl. That's just crazy!!
Thanks Terry and jadnashua. I looked through the previous thread and am looking for a Caroma (based on the overall feedback, bigger trap size is favored for large BMs). What's the difference between a Sydney Smart and Sydney Smart II. The only info I could find from the spec sheets is one came out in 2008 and the II in 2013. Thanks again for your help.
 

rick k

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Thanks Terry and jadnashua. I looked through the previous thread and am looking for a Caroma (based on the overall feedback, bigger trap size is favored for large BMs). What's the difference between a Sydney Smart and Sydney Smart II. The only info I could find from the spec sheets is one came out in 2008 and the II in 2013. Thanks again for your help.
 

rick k

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The II model uses slightly less water per flush. No experience with either one to tell you if one is better than the other, but their MAP scores are impressive. The guy who designed that test says that anything over 500 is fine. http://www.caromausa.com/search.php?keywords=sydney

Thanks, but based on the spec sheets, they are both the same volume flush (1.28gpf/4.8lpf (solid flush), 0.8gpf/3lpf (liquid flush)). The 0.96 gal is the full/half flush average. The average is listed for the Smart II, but the flush volumes appear to be the same for the two toilets.
 

jadnashua

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I was comparing the Sydney Smart Point 8 (1g/0.7g) to the Sydney Smart II Elongated (1.28g/0.8g).

One thing to keep in mind with any low-flow toilet is, especially when dealing with a two stage flushing system, the water spot and volume in the bowl tends to be smaller than those with a larger minimum flush volume. If they didn't, then it would be hard to fully evacuate the bowl verses just diluting it. Stuff that sits above the water spot tends to make skid marks, so good flush action is important, or a bowl brush may be a common use item. I have no personal experience with the Caroma line, but feedback here has been that it really does flush the big, hard stuff away, that others either can't or it takes multiple flushes to accomplish.
 

ImTinkerbell

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With that in mind, the Caroma may be better.
I have also sold the Kohler Highline with the Flushmate pressure assist for that.

The Caroma has the largest trapway and uses gravity. They will flush a potato.
The Kohler with Flushmate, has a pressure unit pushing and breaking things up.
You should be able to find this locally
Kohler Highline with Fushmate
K-3493

The downside to the Caroma is cleaning. The downside to the Flushmate is noticable noise. However, you don't have much choice with your requirements here.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....injury-parkinsons-current-toilet-clogs.16796/

caroma_305_horn.jpg


3" trapway on the Caroma 305 bowl. That's just crazy!!

The question is where can one obtain a Caroma when they are not sold online, and unavailable within a couple hundred miles of one's residence?

I have two family members who fit into this medical situation, and as we recently moved into a tri-level condo with the guest bathroom on the upper floor, I have no desire to deal with a clogged or overflowing toilet making its presence known in the main living area. :eek:

I live in a relatively small community, and most plumbing companies will not sell what they do not install, nor will they install what they do not sell.

I would appreciate any insight or suggestions.
 
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