Basement Bath reno DWV plan

jeromio

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I made a post earlier about this, but it was kind of a jumbled mess . So now I've clarified some things, here it is again.
I'm redoing an ancient basement bathroom/laundry room. This is IPC in North Carolina. The current setup has a long sweep 4in cast iron elbow dipping under the 4in slab and connecting to the city sewer right at the outside wall. The lateral 10ft of 4in (converted to PVC by previous owner) is up high at 78" across the room. The new design will remove that cast iron 90 and instead bury the lateral 10ft under the slab. The vertical portion will be inside a 6" wall. The problem is that the top of the cast iron exit pipe is only 7in from the top of the slab, so it's pretty tight. Also, that main line will be exactly where the toilet needs to be set (there's a window that dictates wall placement). I *think* I have enough room to put a 4-3 combo on its back for the toilet. There will be mortar and tile which gets me another 0.5", but I may end up having to pour an inch or so of cement to raise the floor - would rather not have to do that.

Sizing of the vents is not clear to me. I plan to do a studor vent at the lav. The outer walls are masonry, so venting there is a no go. I'm hiding a dry vent for the laundry in the powder room wall, running laterally thru the ceiling to tie to the 3in vent stack for a bathroom on the main floor. I'm showing 3in bc I would like to also add a utility sink to that laundry line. But I don't know if 3in into existing 3in (with 3 DFU already) is workable. Adding another dry vent to the sky would obviously be a really big job.

For the shower I don't know if it is sufficiently vented by the 4in "wet vent" that is in turn vented by that same 3in stack. (Note there is a 3 by 1.5 san-tee just above that 90 that goes to a tub, but I didn't draw in the lines for the lav and toilet in that main floor bathroom). If I have to, I think there is enough room for a 45° angled san-tee under the shower there to do a vent in the wall. May have to raise shower floor to accommodate that, but that's not as bad as raising the whole bathroom (esp since there will be a pan anyway).

Lastly, I would also like to put a floor drain in here, but I don't know that I have enough venting for all of these fixtures. Not critical, just a nice to have. There's also HVAC in the opposite corner that has condensate - would be great to drain that someplace instead of pumping it outside, but likely not practical.

(BTW, the existing bathroom/laundry here had zero dry vents - house built in 30s. The toilet, laundry and sink were raised up on a rubble/concrete "stage" 24in high. It was so weird)

Any and all feedback welcomed, thanks. Here are some drawings:
BsmtBathAngleView.png

BsmtBathOverheadView.png
 
Now I'm thinking that the laundry (4-3 Wye) should be behind the toilet combo instead of in front as I have it. Would actually be a little easier to rough in since part of the wye would be jammed into the 5in hole in the foundation.
 
Ok, so I never mentioned that I was going to use a santee for a toilet? I stated I thought I would have room for a 4-3 combo, by which I meant a combo wye. You should be able to see the combo in the picture I posted.

I won't really know if it will fit until I completely dig out the existing cast iron, but it does seem like I should have room for the combo and the flange. If I don't then I will pour a layer of concrete to raise the floor.
 
ok a seperate issue is the wet vent running the kitchen through the wet vent in basement. probebly a few other things with venting
 
The 3rd bathroom and the kitchen both have their own individual DWV systems (each vented to sky with appropriately sized pipes). My proposed design is trying to make use of the existing 3in dry vent for the 2nd bathroom (one floor up) and that wet vent (4in).
 
the 3 inch from the basement looks like a vent but its not a vent for the w/c in basement or anything else
 
You need to branch off of the sewer drain for your bathroom groups. You can't use the main (which is draining other fixtures) as a wet vent. Only within the bathroom group itself can there be a horizontal wet vent.
 
yea everything requires individual vents the way he did it and why a 3 inch vent to second floor This whole thing needs refigured as I told him in post 3
 
Ok, Shower needs a separate vent - that was a question I had. I was thinking/hoping that it could be wet vented by the 4 in and included in the DFU count of the 1st floor bathroom. So to vent that will be a santee cranked at 45 which will require raising the floor there at the shower.

The 3in vent was meant to be a vent for both the toilet and the laundry. I realize laundry is a special case and it may not be enough.

The 2 problems I have with this project are limited vertical space (since the sewer line going out is relatively high) and limited horizontal space since the sewer line is located 17in on center from the foundation wall on the side of the room and the toilet needs to go right there at 17in on center and 12-14 in from that foundation wall where the sewer line punches through (depending on tile and tile board etc).

BtrmDia.png

The only alternative I can think of is to move the new 4in PVC line laterally (up or down relative to this drawing, probably down since there's more room that direction). That would involve redoing all of the existing 1st floor plumbing, unless it's possible to angle the vertical part within the new wall? Never seen that done before, nor do I see anything about it in any code books.

But even then there's not going to be enough space to both angle the 4in line back to the hole in the foundation and also put a horizontal toilet fitting via a combo. So then I land at swapping the toilet and the shower. But due to the height required for the shower vent I'll have to raise the floor of the entire bathroom .
 
vent dosent need to be 3 inch the entire basement could be 1 1/2 . but that vent location and plumbing layout wont work
 
Ok, I think I hit upon a solution. If I run a new 3in PVC line parallel to the main 4in to serve the shower, bath sink and toilet, I believe I can crank a 3-3-3 combo wye to 45° and top it with a 45 street and only gain a tiny bit of height (looks like 1/2 in or so based on mocking up the fittings). Might need some wire reinforcement for the concrete at that section.

But this gives me a much more normal bathroom wet vent situation with a dry vent and a clean out at the back. (That's a 3x2 reducing santee back there with a 2in vent although I do believe 1.5in would be sufficient, that was just the fitting drawing I had)

Still leaves the laundry and utility sink, but there are other threads on solving that (altho I would prefer to keep all the drain lines under the floor and I have yet to run across that particular scenario).
BtrmDia2.png

This gets me *really* close to my target location for the toilet
toilet-target.png

It's unconventional and what I'm really stuck on is this combo at a 45° angle. It *seems* like it will work fine, But I don't know what an inspector would have to say about it.
 
There are 45° pvc closet flanges. And offset flanges can help.

The vent at the end isn't needed just stop at the sink and the sink's vent will vent the toilet and shower sufficiently. Run 2"for the sink up through the floor with a cleanout in the cabinet under the sink. Use a wye for the shower. Then after the wye use a long sweep 90 for the lav. All of that should be 2".

My description isn't great. Toilet 3x3, put a 2" bushing in the wye, then go shower wye (2x2), then long sweep 90 for the lav. Just make sure the trap arm for the shower isn't longer than 8'.
 
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I'm a bit confused by your suggestions. I don't have a wall near the sink to run a dry vent. The sink will mount to the outer (foundation) wall. Sink is in the middle of the run. Where I currently have that vent at the very end is is wood framed (6in thick) wall. My original (dumb) plan did use a studor (AAV) at the sink - is that what you're referring to? But also, wouldn't it be good practice to have a clean-out for that whole run? The order of things is shower -> lav -> toilet -> sewer outlet, so eg clean-out in the shower, well, at the very end of the room (outside the wall).

I do get what you're saying about the 2in for the bathroom instead of 3in.
 
Look at the last paragraph. This fittings in that order. It allows a cleanout for everything in the lav cabinet.

Not sure how else to explain it. The aav you plan to use would vent the bathroom. But everything upstream if the toilet doesn't need to be 3".
 
actually a 2 inch c/o i think is fine the w/c is like a foot away from the 4 inch main which will have a c/o upstream at the base for the upstair stack
 
Ya - there is a clean-out at the base of the 4in.

Here are a few more clarifying details:
- Looking at this again, I would like to add a floor drain in the room on the other side of the wall. This would be via swapping in a 3in 90 with a 1.5 take-off for the clean-out. (Wanted one in the laundry area itself, but obvs that's not gonna be practical)
- I would actually prefer not to do an AAV at the sink. The bathroom is quite narrow and I won't have enough room for a vanity to hide a studor valve.
This chart suggests 2 things, one is that the run needs to be 3in since it's more than 8 feet from the toilet (it's close, it's 8.75in). It also says slope should be 1/8". With the AAV it would be super close, but again, I'd prefer to not have that if possible.
ipc-901-chart.png
 
Ya - there is a clean-out at the base of the 4in.

Here are a few more clarifying details:
- Looking at this again, I would like to add a floor drain in the room on the other side of the wall. This would be via swapping in a 3in 90 with a 1.5 take-off for the clean-out. (Wanted one in the laundry area itself, but obvs that's not gonna be practical)
- I would actually prefer not to do an AAV at the sink. The bathroom is quite narrow and I won't have enough room for a vanity to hide a studor valve.
This chart suggests 2 things, one is that the run needs to be 3in since it's more than 8 feet from the toilet (it's close, it's 8.75in). It also says slope should be 1/8". With the AAV it would be super close, but again, I'd prefer to not have that if possible.
View attachment 99662
That isn't how wet vents work. That is a trap arm length chart. Your trap arm is from the wet vent to the fixture. Wet vented don't have length limitations.
 
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