Assistance in picking Softener/Conditioner

Users who are viewing this thread

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
Hello everyone,

I am struggling on picking/committing to a system, as no matter what I research, I jump around. Right now, in my focus is the Genesis Duo, which at 40k grains and is reasonably priced. But upon researching Genesis vs Fleck, I stumbled upon this forum and questioned what I truly needed. In my old home I had a Fleck 5600, and found it met our requirements, but as I moved to the suburbs, I found our water quality was not as good--and therefore needed something to help with cleaning the water not only softening. My wife, myself, and toddler have varying skin issues with our water that we didn't have in our old home. Itchy eyes, scratching hot spots in parts of my toddlers back and my wife legs, and I think its the contaminates in our water--though they are all safe, I think they may be high.

I did a simple water hardness check, and found my hardness is about a 7-8 (edited after checking picture I took of test). Additionally, this link provides our cities most recent water test, and this is a summary of some of the higher chemical items.

My interest in the Genesis Duo was it was a complete setup, that looked easy to setup, had upflow, but I am not sure how much of the marketing has caught me in all honesty.

I was eyeing Springwell, as they have an 'equivalent' which Bluetooth configuration (as an IT techy that appealed to me) and two of my coworkers have and love it, but its a bit more pricey than the Genesis, and uses some kind of Nelson valve I've never seen or heard of. I saw the Pelican setup, but that seems to get a bit pricier as well for debatable value (isnt it basically a Fleck/Pentair?)

About our house:
- New construction PEX
- 4.5 Bath
- 3 Adults, 1 Toddler
- When guests come its about 2 people for a few weeks at a time.
- With 3 showers running concurrently, my water heater shows about 4.3GPM, my guess we only need 12GPM.

Things I am specifically looking for:
- Cleaner Water
- Softer water for our skin and glass/cleaning/etc.
- I like low maintenance
- Upflow appeals to me, based on the "promise" of reduced water usage during recharge
- Metered in some form or fashion (Regenerate because its needed, not because its a schedule).
- Preferably bought/shipped within US
- DIY install (already plumbed with a hookup for water softener and drain, 1 inch hookup).
- Going for significant improvement, not perfection, no appeal in having reverse osmosis--looking for whole home setup.
- Good vendor support/help if needed.

Anyone have a suggestion? Hope I provided adequate information!

Thank you.
 
Last edited:

DIYMissus

Member
Messages
108
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
Ontario, Canada
Hi! I'm a home owner not a pro so FWIW

A Hach 5B test is a simple and accurate way to find out exactly what your hardness is . You will need that number to program a softener. The hardness is the one of the main factors to determine what size softener you need IF you need one. Personal Preference aside, anything under 7 GPG a softener is not necessary . ( https://www.health.state.mn.us/comm...our water's hardness is,or look of your water.)

My feeling on bluetooth is that it's a shiny bell or whistle but not all that useful. Once you get the system set up and running you are probably going to need to check it monthly if that

Hubby and I installed our twin tank system it was fairly straightforward with basic DIY plumbing skills.

For DIYers Fleck and Clack are the preferred brands since they are reliable, non-proprietary and parts are readily available

Hope that helps
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
For DIYers Fleck and Clack are the preferred brands since they are reliable, non-proprietary and parts are readily available
Clack parts are not so readily available if you want to order them.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
DiscountWaterSofteners now stated 32,000 grain was plenty for my house (and they provided their math). Their new model uses KDF85 Filtration and is a single tank it would appear.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
Hi! I'm a home owner not a pro so FWIW

A Hach 5B test is a simple and accurate way to find out exactly what your hardness is . You will need that number to program a softener. The hardness is the one of the main factors to determine what size softener you need IF you need one. Personal Preference aside, anything under 7 GPG a softener is not necessary . ( https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/water/factsheet/softening.html#:~:text=There is no requirement to soften your water.&text=If your water's hardness is,or look of your water.)

My feeling on bluetooth is that it's a shiny bell or whistle but not all that useful. Once you get the system set up and running you are probably going to need to check it monthly if that

Hubby and I installed our twin tank system it was fairly straightforward with basic DIY plumbing skills.

For DIYers Fleck and Clack are the preferred brands since they are reliable, non-proprietary and parts are readily available

Hope that helps

Thank you for your quick reply. We did a basic paper water softener test, and did find that though we don't have very hard water, it has been harsh on our skin, dishes, glass showers, etc. The 5 was based on my memory, but I just found the picture of the test I did, and it probably is closer to 7-8.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
Ok, so the more I am reading… It seems that a lot of water softener companies offer a KDF filter for their water softeners. At least, Genesis and SoftPro. Either way, based on my water report, I tend to think my focus should be more in having a Carbon Filter, more so than the KDF filter. Is Upflow as Genesis/SoftPro/etc. advertised, truly a value add? Is a properly configured Fleck5600SXT going to mitigate that? I just don't want to waste water/salt that's unnecessary. I also understand that the resin and options chosen with my fleck can be a factor in it.

Does anyone have an online company they would recommend have this conversation with? I have worked with QualiterWaterForLess.com in the past, with success--but that was purely for a standard Fleck5600SXT water softener so it wasn't much of a conversation. AFWFilters seems like its prices are even better than QualityWaterForLess but I have no experience with them.

I am starting to think that with Springwell, Genesis, SoftPro, I am paying a premium for what can be done equally or better with a Fleck system adapted to what I require.

Any guidance appreciated, I'd like to order something this week.

Note: it appears from my water bill, we use about 6000-7000 gallons per month water.
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Note: it appears from my water bill, we use about 6000-7000 gallons per month water.
A lot of that water probably goes to the lawn, and would not go through a softener.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
For starters, have you checked with any local guys? I would avoid the systems that are a cheap knock off of the true Fleck valves, it would be like buying a Tayoto instead of a Toyota. You can only imagine how it is built, what compromises were made etc... also be aware that most online companies that offer a Fleck valve will often times put this valve on top of a junk tank, with low end media, the online water treatment game can be difficult as most of these companies don't build equipment, they just call up the assembly companies and see who can build them the cheapest. I have the Fleck internet connected valve. It is "neat" but in my opinion a softener should be a toaster. Something you totally ignore, it works for 20 years, then you replace it. With a good system, 20 years later you can actually rebuild it and get another 20 years out of it. As to adding KDF to the system, don't. It can only be done properly in a couple of ways and if it is applied incorrectly it will simply do nothing but add marketing words to the systems description.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
For starters, have you checked with any local guys? I would avoid the systems that are a cheap knock off of the true Fleck valves, it would be like buying a Tayoto instead of a Toyota. You can only imagine how it is built, what compromises were made etc... also be aware that most online companies that offer a Fleck valve will often times put this valve on top of a junk tank, with low end media, the online water treatment game can be difficult as most of these companies don't build equipment, they just call up the assembly companies and see who can build them the cheapest. I have the Fleck internet connected valve. It is "neat" but in my opinion a softener should be a toaster. Something you totally ignore, it works for 20 years, then you replace it. With a good system, 20 years later you can actually rebuild it and get another 20 years out of it. As to adding KDF to the system, don't. It can only be done properly in a couple of ways and if it is applied incorrectly it will simply do nothing but add marketing words to the systems description.
Hello,

Completely and entirely understand the Fleck vs Flack valves. QualityWaterforLess seemed to be pretty genuine when I used it at my old house. 1 1/2yrs after I got the water hardness set, it was a set it and forget it thing (minus adding salt).

So far, all the locals are selling over priced systems, or are Pelican/Culligan/Springwell/etc. I have not see anyone local that would sell me everything I need for self-install. Not yet at least. There was one guy that sold a water softener to my coworker... over 7k, and claimed NASA based technology.... yeah, definitely out of my budget. We mock him still. :)
 

raygunclan

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida
Hey neighbor! We are in your area and I was wondering what you decided to go with. We are on a well and I'm assuming you are on WG city water but since you are local I wanted to find out if you ended up DIYing it or hiring a local company to help. I am much more into the DIY option but my husband is convinced that we should spend the money with a professional. I'm not convinced. Thanks!
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
Hi neighbor!

Let me get back to you tomorrow. I wanted you to see this as acknowledgement. :)

I did come to a plan thats working well for me now. Talk soon!.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
Hello,

So, I ended up going with two FLECK 5600SXT units (1 softener, 1 filter). A few years ago, I had a water softener which was also a Fleck 5600SXT and we loved it. After discussions here, and reading up in other chats, I realized that a lot of what is being sold, is more marketing and sales pitches than anything else.

I provided my water report in Winter Garden to the company, and asked basic questions. The result, I custom tuned my water softener and filter to my needs, including an upgraded carbon type and upgraded Resin in the units, to help more effectively address my concerns.

The Genesis models didn't sell me ultimately, as the unit I was looking at, got updated into a single tank. They believe they can do things with 1 tank, that requires a significant surface area across the carbon and resin, to be effective---and I foresaw that being a problem if not immediately, in the future. Additionally, the Fleck gear is highly recognized in plumbing throughout the U.S. so getting assistance with the unit is going to be far easier, than a custom thing. As for up-flow and down-flow, I ran a cycle with my Fleck last night to test the drain, and found the water usage was quite reasonable for what it was doing.

I did end up paying a plumber, which bums me out. Because of where I put the units, I wanted some flexible connectors, and bought the SharkBite 1inch water softener connectors but the angle I was needing to use them at, caused them to leak really bad (Trying to turn them into 90 degree hoses I think put the gaskets in a bad position). The plumber who came out was a "small shop plumber" and he used 1inch PEX everywhere (as my whole house is) so I at least put the money in a guy's pocket that just had a child and is buying his first house. :) If it wasn't for my insistence on hooking it up a specific way, I could have probably been done w/o a plumber. I just got exhausted after $150 in SharkBite connectors and it still leaking. (1inch connectors are expensive! The hookup hoses were 24$ each!). If your fine hard-lining it, using CPVC or PEX, you will have great success!.

I have had the combo setup for a few days now, and everyone in the house is very happy. The water tastes better than bottled, our skin feels smoother and isnt dry any longer, my eyes are itching less, our hair is softer...all around, just very positive.

Let me know if you have any questions, or feel free to PM me.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Glad to read it is all good.
So, I ended up going with two FLECK 5600SXT units (1 softener, 1 filter). A few years ago, I had a water softener which was also a Fleck 5600SXT and we loved it.
What media and what tank size for the filter? The 5600 can only backwash at about 7 gpm. That may be enough. My H2S+iron filter uses only 5 gpm with a 10x54 tank and a 5600SXT, but it has lighter media. If you have city water, then you probably have some kind of carbon media, and those are relatively light as media go.
 

darrylb

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Orlando, FL
I went 1.5CU FT, it was a type of Calagon carbon media. We made sure the tanks were similar size for contact surface area, and flow rates.
 

raygunclan

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida
That all sounds great! I called the county to find out who tests our well water to know what we need to be filtering out and they sent me a couple of names. I have to say that it is shocking how expensive it is! I will look up the Fleck. I'm not sure what our old guy is but I know it looks exactly like what all of the new stuff looks like so it is hardly new technology. But since we are doing a big remodel and our system currently isn't working, I'd rather replace it now so that all of the faucets stay clean.
If you wouldn't mind, would you message me your plumber's name? I'd much rather use a little guy who could use the money (kids are expensive! Next year all 3 of ours will be in college!) than the plumbers from the big outfits. Plus, those guys drive into my town and think I'm rolling like my neighbors, which I'm definitely not. Lol.
Thanks for the info!
And we were downtown WG this weekend to take my hubby's new cruiser out for a spin on the trail. How lucky are we to have all that at our disposal? And then a good burrito and a cold beer afterwards? Heaven!
 

Water Guy

In the Trades
Messages
80
Reaction score
3
Points
8
Location
New York
Hello,

Completely and entirely understand the Fleck vs Flack valves. QualityWaterforLess seemed to be pretty genuine when I used it at my old house. 1 1/2yrs after I got the water hardness set, it was a set it and forget it thing (minus adding salt).

So far, all the locals are selling over priced systems, or are Pelican/Culligan/Springwell/etc. I have not see anyone local that would sell me everything I need for self-install. Not yet at least. There was one guy that sold a water softener to my coworker... over 7k, and claimed NASA based technology.... yeah, definitely out of my budget. We mock him still. :)
your talking ionics, they've sold them for a long time, they advertise it's the same softener used by nasa for marketing purposes. my brother bought one at a garage sale for $50. I hooked it up, put in through couple regens and it's been working, even with 2 parts iron, for 3 yrs. lol I did however add a 20" sediment filter prior as most of his iron was ferric.
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks