50-180 PSI in corroded muni water pipe, what is the solution?

[Kr8peace]

Muni water supply in small CO mountain town is about 50 PSI now, in winter. It will rise to 180 PSI spikes a lot with spring melt and continue until fall when it again slowly diminishes. Installed a pressure reducer to save fixtures. The incoming 3/4 galvanized pipe is also corroded so volume is reduced. Issue with low pressure in winter, can only run a single shower at a time, which dwindles down to about 43 PSI a few minutes in and holds. Need consistent pressure/more volume. Considered adding a tank-only at the incoming main pipe, or a shallow well/convertible jet pump with a 12 gal tank with integrated pump? Bought a Superior Pump model 94553 but if I don't need the noise much prefer no more motors. Would just a pressure tank alone help? It seems logical since it would mimic replacing the main supply pipe with a larger one, ie more volume under pressure, maybe enough for a shower? Would it work when PSI remains high enough, but dwindle pressure after a few minutes, ie would it add the volume and maintain the pressure longer? Cannot afford to replace main supply pipe buried 8 ft and will likely need directional drill to route under another building anyway.

 

[Valveman]

No, a pressure tank will not help. It will actually be seen as an additional load and make the pressure worse. A cistern storage tank filled from the city supply with a float valve would be best. With a Cycle Stop Valve you can have such strong constant pressure in your house that soap in the shower will no longer be necessary. If you don't like the noise of a jet pump, you could put a submersible in the cistern and make it silent.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kr8peace]

How small could the cistern tank be, a single shower or 2x? Would the 12 gallon shallow well tank/pump I already have be useful in this scenario? Assume the Sidekick makes similar clicking noises but I like your idea of an in-tank pump for quieter. Could a tank be small enough to put in the attic above or hang it? If you can suggest a cistern tank and valve?

 

[Reach4]

https://www.plastic-mart.com/category/8/water-storage-tanks shows various tanks. https://www.plastic-mart.com/category/39/doorway-water-tanks are able to fit through doors.

You will not want to put a water storage tank in an unheated attic.


A submersible pump can be horizontal in a flow inducer sleeve.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/pump_in_tank_0-png.52649/

I guess I now need to explore directional drilling costs to replace the corroded incoming line, as the neighbor did and has adequate supply and psi.

How much did that cost? Sounds like an investment, rather than an expense.

 

[Kr8peace]

I see these in a well situation like your drawing shows. On my muni water supply corroded down to a pencil:
1) any specific type of float valve that could only fail closed? Concerned about it overflowing the non-pressure tank if it fails, having constant pressure. Prefer a non-mechanical float switch if possible, being a mountain area where power is out frequently. It does seem a good solution to the corroded galvanized 3/4" supply line.
2) Ball valve or one of the internal float type?
3) For the in-tank submersible pump, what would be a value choice for a small house demand to supply constant pressure from the tank alone.
4) Would a small diaphragm-type pressure tank work, such as used for a water heater, ie instead of the sidekick you show I assume uses electric controls? I also have a cycle stop valve if that is useful? (Currently trying a shallow well jet pump with 12 gal tank but afraid it will not keep up and with annoying clicks, so preparing for this upgrade).

 

[Reach4]

I see these in a well situation like your drawing shows. On my muni water supply corroded down to a pencil: 1) any specific type of float valve that could only fail closed?

You could put two float switches in parallel, but test them separately on occasion.
You could also have an alarm with its own float.

3) For the in-tank submersible pump, what would be the value choice for a small house demand to supply the constant pressure from the tank alone, or would another pressure tank be needed too?

1/2 hp 10 gpm is the smallest economical pump usually. A 1/3 hp pump would cost more.

The only pressure tank would be for the pressure pump -- the one in the cistern. The filling does not use a pressure tank, but only the float switch.

Some people have been able to ream the rust out of a galvanized pipe to make some improvement over short straight distances. Not your situation.

 

[Kr8peace]

Yes I think the line is too long to ream it and surprised nobody has invented a long one for this yet, but I guess it has more risks of rupturing.
If the shallow well pump with 12 gallon tank doesn't suffice I will go this route, maybe just using a 55 gallon drum. I just hope the well pump doesn't suck it dry faster than it replenishes, I would assume only by the fixture demand? I appreciate these tips R4. Are you by chance near Boulder CO?

 

[Reach4]

Yes I think the line is too long to ream it and surprised nobody has invented a long one for this yet, but I guess it has more risks of rupturing.
If the shallow well pump with 12 gallon tank doesn't suffice I will go this route, maybe just using a 55 gallon drum. I just hope the well pump doesn't suck it dry faster than it replenishes, I would assume only by the fixture demand? I appreciate these tips R4. Are you by chance near Boulder CO?

If you add a tank, it would be much bigger than 12 gallons unless it were a pressure tank following a CSV on a booster pump.

How about dropping your PRV to 40 PSI? That would keep your pressure much more constant.

 

[Jeff H Young]

43 psi isn't bad at all its the ID of your pipe only way to compensate is higher pressure. pipes are shot . have you considered running new service? don't know the responsibility of water provider to maintain the system is if their pipe is rusted shut how do you make them fix it?

 

[Fitter30]

How long is the pipe run from meter to house. By not replacing the line the problem will only get worse. Hot water line is always worst unless using a softern. Pump is a band aid.

 

[Jeff H Young]

no mention of galvinized withen the building? lengths of run. lot of details some kind of sistern and good pipe the rest of the way to and withen the house, only real fix for bad pipe is to replace it

 

[2stupid2fixit]

I'd want to get away from the galvanized pipe sooner than later. We all know it will never improve.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I'd want to get away from the galvanized pipe sooner than later. We all know it will never improve.

Thats the way get rid of all of it. but didnt you have a problem with the citys piping as well?