3 wire Goulds without ground

[PaulTH]

Have an old Goulds 7EH05412 submersible pump which has a Franklin 1/2 hp 3-wire motor. The 3 wires on the pump are black, red and yellow but there is no ground wire. I cannot find any manuals for this online. How is this suppose to be wired and is it safe without a ground wire?

tyia,
Paul

 

[WorthFlorida]

It could have been cut off. Is it's 240v motor?

youtu.be/cKJQT6fih0o?si=J_WQN9m24_qhKj1i

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

It used to be the norm to not run a ground wire. I think you could put a wire terminal under a screw, but you would want to check on that.

Don't touch your ungrounded pump when it is powered. That's a joke.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I would do some first hand research but I think the 3 wire has to have a control box wires should match color on the control box black red , yellow again confirm

 

[Valveman]

Yeah a 3 wire will need the control box. But we installed them for generations without a ground wire. May not meet "code" anymore but will work fine. You can run a ground wire to a motor bolt if you want to add one.

 

[Reach4]

Per newer codes, you are also required to run a ground to a metal well cap, and I suspect a metal well seal. I don't have such a ground, but it may be grounded to the steel well casing. I guess this is in case the insulation for the wires shorts against the cap/seal.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Dont know where you are going with this? If this pump was installed befor at this location or is compatable with the control box? or you are cobbling a new build. but dont just take a 3 wire and hook up 2 hots and a ground gotta have that compatable box which I assume yould have spots for black , red , and yellow.

 

[Reach4]

Have an old Goulds 7EH05412 submersible pump which has a Franklin 1/2 hp 3-wire motor. The 3 wires on the pump are black, red and yellow but there is no ground wire. I cannot find any manuals for this online.

Find the Franklin AIM Manual. Page 50 has info for 1/2HP QD control boxes Page 53 would have a diagram for 1/2 HP QD control boxes.

I might replace the start capacitor in the control box, if it is old.

If your box is not on page 50, get the model number, and search for that number.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Find the Franklin AIM Manual.

I might replace the start capacitor in the control box, if it is old.

Since he didnt say Im thinking he has some junk laying around trying to rig something up.
questions dont make sence black on pump goes to black on the box and so on? manuals online ?

 

[Reach4]

If it is a pump that has been out of the water for a long time, then topping off the water inside of the pump end would be a good idea before putting the pump into service.

 

[Bannerman]

Code requirements often change over time.

As many older sub pumps were installed without a grounding conductor, I anticipate the thought at the time was, since the pump is located down in a well, fully submerged in water that is in direct contact with earth, the pump will be effectively grounded.

Because pure water is not an electrical conductor, it is the various salts and minerals dissolved in the water that provide electrical conduction. As the amount of minerals and salts can vary widely between different wells, there is a potential for a less effective 'water ground' to be created in some wells compared to the same pump installed in an alternate well.

Most electrical codes now require all grounds to return to and terminate within the main electrical panel. Adding a dedicated grounding conductor from the sub pump (and metal well casing), back to the main electrical panel, will ensure the pump and well casing will utilize the same common ground reference connection as the entire electrical system.

 

[Reach4]

The way I interpret it, if the ground was not required when the wire was run to the well, then you don't need to retrofit a wire. If replacing a grounded pump, and the ground wire runs down to the pump, then grounding to a screw on the pump may or may not be required by code. I don't know...

If looking at this from a safety point of view, rather than a code thing, then the ground is not needed IMO.

I am not a pro. I welcome honest interpretation that can certainly differ.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Ive never Interpeted nor read the code but not every code can be ignored due to it was never there befor therefore I dont need one .
Of cource he hasent asked about whether it should have one ? I dont even know if he has a well at this time it could be some future project he hasent done yet and had old junk laying around maybe he is throwing it in a pond ? who knows .
Ill repeat again it wires up to the control box as marked . if there is no control box. then I dont think its useable at least not as is it needs capcitor and I dont know what else

 

[Reach4]

Good point... he may not even have a well at this point.

A control box can be had for that, but it is different, depending largely on if this is a 115 v motor or 230 v. For a 115 v motor, Franklin 280 104 4915 would do it, and 280 105 4915 would be for 230v. https://www.pumpproducts.com/frankl...r-3-wire-motors-indoor-outdoor-enclosure.html https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=2801054915&_sacat=0