Shallow well jet pump selection (with CSV)

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farmerisland

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Hello all. First off, thank you guys; you're awesome. So I have a multi generation farmhouse with super old Minnonite drilled house well with "pump house" access within my basement. It's gotta be a pretty shallow well but nobody alive knows the depth. The well curb has been concrete over within a wall inside this little doored pump house a couple feet down from the regular basement level.

The water level has to be decently high though, as in wet times of the year the water table is up and is noticeable with moisture in old foundation walls. Sticking with this house well helps. Otherwise in drought yrs I can switch to our farm well line from an excellent well a half mile away that feeds the entire farm with cattle/hogs/house/etc.

Not knowing my well depth or water level, is there any way to know if a 3/4 hp jet pump will benefit me at all over just a 1/2 hp? The current GE pump has finally pooped out, after almost 40 yrs. My dad installed it in 1984 with a 50 gallon air over water tank with no bladder.

After learning some about CSVs on the forum here and then researching Cary's site, I'm going to go with a PK1A-LT and a new 20 gal tank I can get for cheap. Our old farmhouse has been added on multiple times and has 3 stories incl a full basement, 8 total sinks, 4 showers, and 5 toilets. With a 2002 3 story addition making for two sides of house with separate HVAC and hot water heaters, two people could shower easily and not run out of hot water, in a pinch, getting ready for out the door. You could always notice the pressure difference though.

I wondered if upgrading to a 3/4 hp pump would help get the flow up to that 3rd floor where all the bedrooms and the majority of the showering takes place, especially if two showers go at the same time while a load of laundry or dishes fills, extra toilet flushes, etc. Are there any possible negatives to a 3/4 over the replacement 1/2? I wouldn't want to push too much water and water hammer or cause stress to my old pipes.... But then again, wouldn't the CSV prevent the bigger (maybe oversized?) pump from either of those problems? Some of this stuff I'm a bit ignorant on, sorry.

Lastly, which of these two jet pumps would be better for my situation? I know they're not Goulds but work with me :)

Little Giant 3/4 hp LG-SWJ75 or 1/2 hp SWJ50
OR Simer 3/4 3107P-10 or 1/2 3105P-10.

It sounds like the Little Giant is still US made and tied in with Franklin Motors so that's probably a good sign. The Simer advertises their plastic housing as a good thing for aggressive water (it is pretty hard and does have a little grit before filtering) while the LG is cast iron. The current GE cast housing is shot and both discharge and input sides leak from the corroded threads, but then again it's been 39 yrs.

Because of current sales, they're within $20 of each other. I'd be running 110v on them, either hp pump setup. They both come pre-installed with 30/50 pressure switches... For the CSV kit do I need to rig up something different with the switches?

Thank you in advance! I've learned a lot just today alone in the research.
 

Valveman

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A 3/4HP won't give you much more than the 1/2HP. And yes, with a CSV you can install as large a pump as you might need with a house full of company, and the CSV will still make it work like a small pump when only one shower is being used. With a 3 story house it is not the HP of the jet pump that counts but rather how much pressure it can build. A jet pump has to be quite a bit larger than needed to get the pressure you need for the 3 story house. A 30/50 pressure switch will not leave you with much or any pressure on the top floor. I would run at least a 50/70 pressure switch with the CSV1A delivering a strong constant 60 PSI. This way even the shower on the upper flor won't require any soap as the pressure will just blast the dirt off. Lol!

The only jet pumps that can build the 80 PSI needed to work with a 50/70 switch is a Goulds J5SH or a J15S. The J5SH won't pump but maybe 5 GPM, while the J15S can do up to 25 GPM.

To get that kind of pressure with a 3/4HP you will need a multi-stage pump like the Goulds 10GB07 rather than a jet pump.
 

Reach4

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If you want to switch to 240 volt supply, it may be easier than you think. You would need space for a 2-pole breaker in the breaker box. The farther you are from the breaker box, the more advantage to higher voltage.

There is also the possibility to put a 1/2 hp 7- or 10-gpm pump submersible pump horizontally in a flow inducer sleeve in your atmospheric tank. The 7-gpm pump could produce more pressure. The 7-gpm pump would cost more.
 

farmerisland

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If you want to switch to 240 volt supply, it may be easier than you think. You would need space for a 2-pole breaker in the breaker box. The farther you are from the breaker box, the more advantage to higher voltage.

There is also the possibility to put a 1/2 hp 7- or 10-gpm pump submersible pump horizontally in a flow inducer sleeve in your atmospheric tank. The 7-gpm pump could produce more pressure. The 7-gpm pump would cost more.
Thanks Reach... That's an aspect of this situation I hadn't even considered. The old house is already overloaded on a few of the oldest circuits, how it was wired originally, and I've fixed bit by bit. With the higher amp draw I was probably going to end up running new wire/breaker anyway as it's not alone on the circuit currently. ... I actually would be less than 30 foot from the main breaker box though. Would the main benefit of switching to 230v ... Pump cooling and longevity?
 

Reach4

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... I actually would be less than 30 foot from the main breaker box though. Would the main benefit of switching to 230v ... Pump cooling and longevity?
Less light dimming, or voltage drop, when the pump turns on. Less loss in the wires on the way to the pump. Not sure about losses in the pump itself. 240v would be a little easier on the pressure switch, since currents are cut in half.
 

Valveman

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A 1/2HP load is a 1/2HP worth of electricity, no matter if running on 115V or 230V. But the amperage is cut in half when using 230V. Amperage is heat. The less amperage you have through the wires, pressure switch, and motor, the cooler everything will run.
 

farmerisland

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A 1/2HP load is a 1/2HP worth of electricity, no matter if running on 115V or 230V. But the amperage is cut in half when using 230V. Amperage is heat. The less amperage you have through the wires, pressure switch, and motor, the cooler everything will run.
I have my PK1A (Less Tank) kit now and have been making my plans/rounding up fittings. Okay, because 1) the layout might work better in the narrow of my "well house" and 2) it'd also be cool to avoid another $40 in tank tee, etc metal fittings, I thought it might work best to plumb my 20 gal standing pressure tank into the bottom 3/4 CSV port. Only thing is it wouldn't be a short straight shot down short pipe like I've seen in a few install photos with 10 gal tanks. Is there anything wrong with having some 90s between the CSV bottom port and my bigger pressure tank that can't be more directly tied in, because of my space/layout? I'd have for sure one elbow from the tank bottom stub, up into the CSV bottom, possibly 2 elbows total. And total pipe length between tank and CSV would be around 3 feet. ?
 
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