Kohler Wellworth Canister Flush Valve chain tangling?

glacial_erratic

glacial_erratic

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We had a Koehler Wellworth toilet installed during a remodel last year. It flushes OK, but about every 3 or 4 flushes, the chain inside the tank gets tangled or stuck, and the toilet runs. Then you havd to open the lid and straighten it out. Are there any fixes or ways to prevent this?
Thank you!

kohler_canister.jpg
 
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Toto had the same problem on there G-max flappers and they started putting a 2" plastic tube over the chain to stop it tangling.

You see it in this picture on top of the flapper.

cst854_inside_tank_new.jpg
 
What does it get stuck on? If it has too much slack between the lever and the flapper, one of the links can get caught underneath the flapper...just shorten it some. Otherwise, guess we need a picture.
 
The Wellworth doesn't have a flapper. It has a tall, wide tube that lifts up with the lever and a chain near the top. (Sorry, I'm an amateur, don't know the name of the tube-like thing that lifts up to flush.) The chain just tangles itself - like some of the links get kind of twisted up together and then the tube does not fall back down into position. It's not a very long chain, so I was surprised it has this problem. Maybe the chain-cover like the Toto would help, but is that something Koehler would have? I will try to add a picture on Monday, unless someone else has had this problem and can send in the solution.
Thanks for your help!

k-3999_8.jpg


photo added by Terry Love
 
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Kohler is unlikely to have that or care. I'd just try something like HD or a hardware store and see what I could find that might work.
 
Wellworth pictures

It took me a while to get pictures. I don't live at the house where the toilet is. Here are some pix attached. The first one is when the toilet flushes, the second picture is when the tube is back down for refilling. Any ideas on how to prevent the chain from sticking, let me know! Thank you.
 

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It is actually the chain clip that can actually catch up, they have redesigned the trip lever. It now actually has a circle ring rather than the chain clip. This is more likely to happen for the people who hold down the handle. if you call them they will order the replacement for you no charge.
 
kohler cannister flush

why try to re-invent the wheel. the flapper worked this cannister doesn't and none of the fixes kohler has offered have worked. i put five of these toilets in a doctor's office. all of them have had problems with the cannister getting stuck and water constantly running. this costs money folks and kohler doesn't care. over 18 months of attempts to get this fixed and now i am going to start replacing them with something else. at first it was the chains and the little gate hook attachement they were using now i notice that as the flush lever gets worn or weakened it tends to knock the cannister slight out of alignment and doesn't allow it fall back down not sure if there is a fix? someone suggest a chain with smaller links or beads and that was my most successful attempt at repair but even those are starting to have the problem of the lever putting just enough pressure on the cannister to not let it fall. sorry if i went on so long with this rant but this has been a big problem and my supplier and i have both been un-happy with kohler's response.

kohler_canister.jpg
 
They went to the cannister because the extra large flapper they were using became too soft and would leak.
I asked the head engineer at Kohler why they were going so big, I suggested that 2.75" may be better, it would still drop plenty of water quickly, and be easier to design a flapper that held up.
The president of the company chimed in and said that for marketing purposes, bigger is always better.
I disagreed, but then what do I know.
The Keg Restaurant in Factoria.

It would be a simple fix to come up with a replacement flush valve with smaller opening and flapper.
A/S came up with a replacement for their Champion line.
They went big for marketing too, but it necks down to 3" so all that hype was really marketing again.

The meal was good and the company. Jamie and I enjoyed talking with them. Both very nice people.

I love the Kohler cast iron tubs. I need to install one here.
The Mendota K-506 is a really nice one.
60" x 32" x 16-1/4"


Though I did install the Archer for someone, and that would work too.
K-1123-RA
60" x 32" x 19"
 
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In-laws needed to replace a toilet in a little-used guest bath. This toilet was recommended to them by a 'contractor' friend as they didn't want to spend a lot of money. Easy enough to install and it has a fairly decent flush for a $120 toilet. I'm not a fan of flush towers/canisters, due to past experience with Mansfield and American Standard, but I was impressed with the flush and bowl rinse. Tank shows made in the USA but the flush lever and canister seem to be a little 'cheap'. The chain hasn't hung up yet, but we'll see how the canister and seal hold up over time .... So far, it looks OK for occasional use but I don't think I would recommend this one for commercial or heavy use.
 
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Thats the Kohler "Class Five" flushing system for its official name...
Just another of their latest and greatest proprietary parts...
 
Thanks so much for your insight on the canister flush mechanism. Ours went bad after just over a year (after the warranty ran out of course) and with testing, I've noticed the red capped "Fluidmaster" diaphram hangs up at the end of the fill cycle and won't shut the water off. VERY annoying. If you push down on the black vertical rod, that is attached to the flush handle, voila it turns off. If you pull the rod out of the snap fitting at the top where it attaches to the lever that connects it to the red top piece, then adjust the loose rod so the water level turn off is lower, then snap it back in, this seems to alleviate the problem of it not shutting off after flushing. I'm not about to dump in another $100 to replace internal toilet parts that are obviously POORLY engineered and worth no more than $25 tops. Kohler needs to get their head out of the toilet and get this mess fixed.

kohler_canister.jpg
 
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Kohler Cannister Valve Sticking

Same problem, but here's what I have noticed. The cannister tends to rotate, so that the chain becomes taught against the cannister tube, and prevents it from closing properly. The cannister can be rotated back to have more slack in the chain, and that allows it to seat properly. Unfortunately, after 20 or 30 flushes it rotates again, and the chain goes taught again. I don't know how to prevent the rotation.
 
aquapiston-terrylove-1.jpg


This was my fix for a sticking canister flush.
I should have taken a before picture though. The black tube on the old fill valve was a bit short and when the canister was lifted up, it would lean against the fill tube and get stuck. I changed out the fill valve with a longer tube, and now the canister lifts and drops just fine.
So new seal at the bottom while I was there, new fill valve, like why not. And it works perfectly now. So maybe those that were sometimes sticking, maybe the hose needed to allow more room for the canister to lift and drop without binding on the hose. It's working well now.
 
Terry said:
aquapiston-terrylove-1.jpg


This was my fix for a sticking canister flush.
I should have taken a before picture though. The black tube on the old fill valve was a bit short and when the canister was lifted up, it would lean against the fill tube and get stuck. I changed out the fill valve with a longer tube, and now the canister lifts and drops just fine.
So new seal at the bottom while I was there, new fill valve, like why not. And it works perfectly now. So maybe those that were sometimes sticking, maybe the hose needed to allow more room for the canister to lift and drop without binding on the hose. It's working well now.
Click to expand...
 
Great forum. The issue is the chain puts an eccentric load on the cannister. Bending the arm closer to he cannister may help.
Best is to lift the cannister from directly over top.

Fundamentally bad design. No easy fix
 
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