New wax ring needed?

Hi

I just had a new toilet installed by the plumbing contractor, and after a few days, I've noticed that the bowl wobbles a bit. The toilet hasn't been used since it was installed, since I've been finishing up painting and a few other remodeling tasks in that room.

The plumber is set to come back this week...can he just shim the bowl and/or tighten the Johnny bolts, or should I have him pull the toilet to install a new wax ring? I don't notice any water leaks around the bowl, but I'm not sure whether the slight movement broke the wax seal.

Thanks

I think most of the pros will say you need a new seal. When the plumber resets the toilet, have him set it down with no wax ring first, to make sure it sits squarely on the floor, and is not rocking on a too-high flange, or a not-flat floor, or a not-flat toilet base. That will also show him where to shim, if needed.

Mikey's answer was right on target. You must determine whether or not the toilet will set level without shims before setting it, and that means without a wax ring. The flange bolts, apparently what you refer to as johnny bolts, are not intended to pull the toilet down into the wax ring. When you set the toilet on the ring, set it so that the horn on the toilet base is centered in the ring, then use your weight to push the toilet down. A slight rocking will help, but when the toilet is properly set, it will not rock at all. Then just snug the nuts down to prevent the toilet from shifting position.

Thanks for the replies. I took another look this weekend, and he had shimmed one side of the bowl (with wooden shims). The bowl now rocks front-to-back though.

I'll ask that he put in a new wax ring, and also use plastic shims instead.

That would be the ticket! Plastic shims or, pennies is what I use. Wood shims tend to compress.

Hi again

I talked to the main plumber today, asked for a new wax ring to be installed when he went back out to my house. Turns out his crew came out yesterday, tightened the hold-down bolts another turn or two, and he now says it's fine. I didn't want to get in an argument over this, so I'll check it out as soon as I can.

Just so I know, if the wax seal WAS broken, would I notice a leak around the toilet base? Or would the symptoms be hidden? I just want to know what to keep an eye out for.

And boy, I really hate arguing with contractors. It's tough to get them to change their mind, especially when it involves more work. This seemed like one of those times where it wasn't worth the fight.

If it leaks you might not see on the floor but on the ceiling below.Keep an
eye on it and listen dripping.
Redwood,I thought I was the only one to use pennies to level w/c.

You 2 are not alone, I have used them as well as quarters and nickles when out of pennies.

And they appear as "shims" on the itemized invoice, right?

Yep 25 cents each.

Are the plastic shims wedge shaped like the wooden ones?

The ones I use are. They've also got indentations scattered around them so they're easy to snap off. These aren't actually solid plastic -- not sure what they are, but probably made from recycled soda bottles or shopping bags or something.

I'm partial to pennies, nickels, and dimes. Gives you various thickness flat surfaces, and cheaper than the shims.

cwhyu2 said:

Yep 25 cents each.

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Wow your cheap on parts! Only a 2500% markup... My markup on shims is 3500%!

econguy said:

Hi again

I talked to the main plumber today, asked for a new wax ring to be installed when he went back out to my house. Turns out his crew came out yesterday, tightened the hold-down bolts another turn or two, and he now says it's fine. I didn't want to get in an argument over this, so I'll check it out as soon as I can.

Just so I know, if the wax seal WAS broken, would I notice a leak around the toilet base? Or would the symptoms be hidden? I just want to know what to keep an eye out for.

And boy, I really hate arguing with contractors. It's tough to get them to change their mind, especially when it involves more work. This seemed like one of those times where it wasn't worth the fight.

Click to expand...

Tell him you want his guys to waste a whole buck and install a new wax ring! He's hacking!

Hi

I'm back again after 6 months. The work in this bathroom from the initial thread got put on hold while I finished up the rest of the rehab.

Anyways, so the contractor wouldn't come back out, but I took the advice given here and pulled the toilet anyways. Good thing because the old wax ring didn't look compressed at all, and scraped off very easily. Not sure if they needed to use an extra-thick ring, but it did not look like a good seal, even without the rocking.

Anyways, I plan to install a Fernco waxless ring, and had some questions.

1. The floor is 3/4" subfloor, 1/2" ply, thinet, ditra, thinset, tile. The plumber only screwed the flange down using 4 of the 6 screw holes. Seems pretty solid, no movement. Ordinarily, I would've marked the screw locations and drilled the holes before the flange was glued in. Should I leave things alone, or try to drill the other 2 holes with the flange in place?

2. The flange sits on top of the tile. Do people normally caulk between the flange and tile? It seems like a good idea, so any water leaks would appear under the toilet, instead of dripping down around the waste pipe.

3.. I disconnected the tank from the bowl in order to remove the toilet. The toilet is Kohler Wellworth and has a tank-to-bowl gasket made out of flexible rubber or plastic (??)...whatever it is, it's not the foam-like material of the gaskets sold in HD, Lowes, etc. Can I re-use it, or should I replace? This toilet has not gotten ANY real use since it was installed, since it's a guest bathroom. It's been flushed several times to check for leaks, but that's it.

Thanks for the advice to replace the wax ring, and for any advice on this.

econguy said:

Anyways, so the contractor wouldn't come back out, but I took the advice given here and pulled the toilet anyways. Good thing because the old wax ring didn't look compressed at all, and scraped off very easily. Not sure if they needed to use an extra-thick ring, but it did not look like a good seal, even without the rocking.

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I'd take that old wax ring and rub it on the windsheilds of all his trucks parked at his shop one night with heavy rain forecast the next day. Let him know you're thinking of him! Make sure that you at least warn everyone you know what a hack plumber this guy is!

econguy said:

1. The floor is 3/4" subfloor, 1/2" ply, thinet, ditra, thinset, tile. The plumber only screwed the flange down using 4 of the 6 screw holes. Seems pretty solid, no movement. Ordinarily, I would've marked the screw locations and drilled the holes before the flange was glued in. Should I leave things alone, or try to drill the other 2 holes with the flange in place?

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I would use all the available screw holes, Use #12 stainless steel or, brass screws that penetrate all layers of floor and subfloor

econguy said:

2. The flange sits on top of the tile. Do people normally caulk between the flange and tile? It seems like a good idea, so any water leaks would appear under the toilet, instead of dripping down around the waste pipe.

Click to expand...

I do not caulk around the flange but I do caulk around the base of the toilet.

econguy said:

3.. I disconnected the tank from the bowl in order to remove the toilet. The toilet is Kohler Wellworth and has a tank-to-bowl gasket made out of flexible rubber or plastic (??)...whatever it is, it's not the foam-like material of the gaskets sold in HD, Lowes, etc. Can I re-use it, or should I replace? This toilet has not gotten ANY real use since it was installed, since it's a guest bathroom. It's been flushed several times to check for leaks, but that's it.

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I would not reuse it.

Thanks Redwood. I'm doing as suggested, but drilling those remaining 2 holes is a PITA. I'm using a couple of tile bits from Black & Decker, picked up from HD, and it is slow going. Is there a better bit to use, or is that the nature of the job?

By the way,

I'd take that old wax ring and rub it on the windsheilds of all his trucks parked at his shop one night with heavy rain forecast the next day. Let him know you're thinking of him

Click to expand...

...

Thanks again

There is a diamond bit that has a tip shaped like an arrowhead or a spade like on a playing card.
Build a dam around where you are drilling and put some water in it to keep the bit cool. These bits will go through glass!

Any rain in the forecast?

If the floor tile is porcelain, it could be nearly as hard as diamond, so a glass bit may not cut it. Diamond is the best choice. Lowes carries a diamond core bit that will work.