Pro for tub drain?

[nursedoe]

Okay, this tub drain is beyond what I am willing to do. I am sure I could eventually learn how to use a jack hammer, but I just want to take a shower! The first of 3 plumbers came by to give estimate to install tub drain. $500.00. He said he will have jack hammer up the concrete to get to the drain and install new one. That includes ME putting in the tub and he will then hook up drain to tub.

Since this is the first estimate, I was shocked. I wasn't expecting that he would have to jack hammer anything! I didn't know that the tub has to be in place before he can hook up the drain properly.

I have called for a total of 3 estimates. However, the last one I am not sure. I kept asking if he had a license. The secretary said the company is licensed. I told her that I understood that, but is the plumber himself licensed? Again she said "we " are licensed. I will ask when he gets here.

There is a picture below of the area.

[Furd]

Jackhammer is probably the wrong term; I would use a rotohammer drill.

You (or the plumber) will need to dig out the roots and crap to get to the trap which is now buried under the slab. Depending on several things you may have to enlarge the hole that is existing and do a fair amount of work on where the trap connects to the drain.

Because you have an ABS vent I suspect that the drain (sewer) is also ABS and quite possibly the trap is ABS as well. If so, the trap may be a one-piece (most likely) or a union-style. The union style is a bit more forgiving when it comes to connecting to the tub.

The trap outlet is probably glued (solvent welded) into the sanitary tee that the vent is connected to. All of this is below where the brass connections that you sawed through are currently in place. You will probably have to dig down a minimum of six inches to get to the bottom of the trap.

I am not a plumber so I don't know if bathtub drain outlets are standardized as far as dimensions from the outer edge of the tub. If they are, you may not have much trouble at all after digging down to where the brass tailpiece connects to the trap itself. I suggest a bit of exploratory surgery around the existing brass thingie (I think it is called a "shoe" but I don't know) and see if the trap itself is in good condition. Take a couple of pictures, close up and post them.

[jadnashua]

The only thing fairly common to a tub drain is that it connects to 1-1/2" trap...there is no such thing as a standard position for it.

[nursedoe]

1) The pipe that comes in from the outside is a drain for the water heater, not the water coming in. They moved it off the floor along the wall.

2) Their smaller hammer was "down the hill", so they actually used a "jack hammer" and made a big hole about a foot deep or so to expose it all. (covered in roots)

3) The copper is all touching each other and some pipes touch the tub, so they will move everything down a couple of inches.

4) Floor is not level, so tub won't be level. They need some lumber. They called it quits at 5 pm and will come back in the morning to finish everything up.

5) I was surprised that the tub must be in place before they put in the p trap and they refill the hole with cement.

This was so way beyond what we could have done ourselves. We were in WAY over our heads. I am sad that they couldn't finish so I could have put up the hardibacker tonight. But I wouldn't have had time to tile it until Monday or Tuesday anyway.

The price is very fair for the amount of labor that seems to be going into the job so far. So far, the price is 375.00 to install tub with drain ( not the fittings for the shower b/c Dorothy will do those). The job seems larger than they thought and they didn't raise the price.

As you saw in the last pictures, the tub was lined with insulation. Should we line it with insulation again?

I think I should put the new insulation up on the walls tonight. I put the aqua paper up after the insulation right? And before the backer board?

Thanks for all the advice so far. And helping me know when it is time to call in a professional.

Nurse doe

[jadnashua]

Insulation around the tub will keep it warmer longer, and adjacent to another room, will help dampen some sound transmission. If the wall insulation has a vapor barrier, slice it with a razor on the areas you are going to put up a vapor barrier to run over the tiling flange - you don't really want two vapor barriers to capture moisture between them.

The tub must end up level L-R and F-B. You may need to set it in a mortar bed. It should also have a ledger board to support the edges. Failure to do this may allow moisture to pour over an edge or wick up into the cbu. You don't want moisture to pool anywhere.

[hj]

If they can install the tub THEN install the "P" trap, then they are much more superior plumbers than I am, Or to be precise, they are either tiny midgets, not an oxymoron because regular midgets would be too big, or magicians. And, I doubt that I would even consider the job for $375.00.

[Gary Swart]

There's a lot of work to clean up and make that mess right. I also question the $375 price as being way too low. Not that I'm opposed to getting a good deal, but I just can't see licensed professional plumbers doing so much for so little. I also question how they put the trap in after the tub is set. Some things about this don't sound right.

[nursedoe]

I am too tired to go into the whole thing, but briefly, the plumber came, started the job, it got late and he didn't finish. I explained that I had to work the next day, so could not be there to supervise. So, the next day, he sent a kid ( knowing I wouldn't be there), who showed up four hours late, without a call, installed the tub/drain, left a HUGE mess, the tub is filthy, my newly installed tile floor was covered with concrete specks/dust, rocks and dirt. The apron of the tub is not even, I haven't got my level out but by eye it is not even. I don't know about anything else. I was so unhappy with the mess, including solder drips everywhere visible to my naked eye without glasses.

Now, remember, the old tub was out, the work area spotless, he had to use the jack hammer to dig out a square foot to replace the whole drain ( we had all the parts already.) He put in the tub, which we helped carry in next to the door. He did not do any water lines to the tub, insulate, use a ledger or anything of the sort. I am tired and will look at it al tomorrow in the light.

Although the tub is standard size, as was the old one, this one is not as close to long wall as the old tub. Remember I complained about the wall being only two inches deep ( 2x4's sideways). Well now, it looks I like a can put 2x4's the other way and make room for a shampoo nitch.

Oh, BTW, the tub says that if a mortor bed or anything like it is used, the warranty is void.

doe

Night

[nursedoe]

1). Okay, the tub is level front to back, but off a bubble right to left.
2). The hole for the drain they made in the foundation is not filled in.
3). The gap on the long side between the studs and the wall is probably wide enough for a 2x4 turned the other way. Remember the wall was shallow, with the studs turned sideways.

So, I am not going to waste time complaining. I just want to get it right.

I am thinking that I have to disconnect the drain and take the tub out to install a ledger. I think one is there out of a 2x4 but it is a "bubble" too low. I want to avoid damaging the drain like last time. Will this new one come out easily? I can't think of another way to try to get it level

Since the new "standard" tub is narrower than the older one. I need to have the studs right to put on the backer board. If I take the tub back out (waaaaaaaa!), can I just nail the new 2x4s perpendicular to the old ones?

Should I fill in the big hole where the p trap is? Seems wierd to have a huge hole under there. I have a slab foundation. Should I just use some gravel and then cement? I have some quickcrete somewhere.


Thanks for all your help guys! This is really getting to be pretty funny.

[MACPLUMB]

To let you know he the general calif. area you don't need to have lic. to plumbing in the state as long as you are working under someone with a state contractors lic. c-36

if you have a problem with the work i would take pictures and call the CO.
owner tell him why you are unhappy,
i am a ca. lic. contractor so address any questons back at me and i will try
to advise you requarding any plumbing work,

JERRYMAC MASTERPLUMBER

[nursedoe]

Thank you for your reply. I was going to ignore the whole thing and just try to fix it myself, but with some heavy pushing from my baby brother, I called the company and told them that my new tub is not level, and the coating is chipped off in several places, the apron is dented, the place was a huge mess, trash on the floor, cement everywhere etc. I tried cleaning his shoe marks and dirt off the tub using gentle cleaners, but on the bottom skid resistant stuff, the dirt is pretty stubborn. Since I can't find any instructions that may have come with the tub ( they left the open box in the driveway, it may have blown away), I can't figure out how to clean his mess. I took lots of pictures and then cleaned it all up the best that I could. After two more phone calls, the original plumber says he will come by and later and look at the work. I really want to work this out fairly for both sides.

I called Home Depot about the tub and they said I could bring it back and exchange it ( the dented apron), or just do some sort of cleat in the floor and try to fix it. This is assuming the tub was somehow defective and not kicked in when he tried to install it. I am frustrated because it means no tiling until this all gets straightened out.

Thanks for the offer to help figure out what to do next with this company and my project. And BTW, I did not chose him because his price was low, another plumber offered to do it as a "side job" for around 300.00, but I chose him because he could do it quickly. Not so quickly now.

I plan to use the time to organize and label tools. And maybe go buy some ear protection for all the noisey power tools!

[GrumpyPlumber]

Nurse,
I've followed your progress from day one here.
All I can say is I truly wish I were nearby.
Very happy to hear you stood your ground with the plumbing company.

[nursedoe]

Plumber didn't show up. No phone call. I guess I will ask to speak to the owner in the morning.

I don't have a lot of time to give the problem tomorrow. I am not sure what my options are. I mean I understand that accidents happen to the best of us. I am just not happy that they are not dealing with the problem very professionally so far.

I don't even want them to reinstall a new tub. Just take that one out, so I can exchange it for an undented one. If I get the same exact tub, then all the plumbing should fit and I can do it myself. It is important to me that it be done right and I doubt it will be done properly by that company.

Lesson learned? Get every detail in writing. "Remove old tub, install drain, install new tub, protect tub with supplied plastic molded protector, clean up mess, don't leave dirt, grease, plumber's putty and solder all over etc..." And honestly, the biggest problem was me being in a hurry and not checking them out.

I'll let you know how it turns out. I am sure there is a pony under there somewhere....

[Furd]

Your experience is why I am so reticent about hiring anyone to do anything for me.

The old adage is to "ask your friends and neighbors for recommendations" but what if your friends and neighbors either have never had the same job done for them or had a bad experience?

I also loved this line: I am sure there is a pony under there somewhere.... I wonder how many people know what comes before that line.

[nursedoe]

I agree. I get frustrated with poor workmanship. But we have to admit, there seems to be lots of qualified, experienced plumbers on the forum. Just none of them here in the desert.

Plumber is avoiding calls. So, skip him. Time to get out of the problem and into the solution. Try to fix it myself after errands and chores are complete for today