Is (Ultimate + upgraded flush valve) == Ultramax?

Hi folks,

I live in Austin TX which has a toilet rebate program which provides a $100 cash rebate for purchasing certain "approved" 1.6GPF toilets to replace old water hogs. I currenly have a Drake in one bathroom, and I love the GMAX flush. As such, I'm planning on replacing another 3.5GPF toilet with a one piece GMAX toilet (e.g. Ultramax).

The Ultramax (GMAX) does not qualify for the $100 city rebate, but the Ultimate (Power Gravity) does.

My questions are:

1. Considering the above information, is my least expensive route to a one-piece GMAX toilet to purchase the Ultimate, get the $100 rebate, and then upgrade the flush valve from Power Gravity to GMAX?

2. Is the Ultimate with the upgraded flush valve exactly the same as a GMAX, or are there other differences?

3. What is the part number and how much does the GMAX flush valve cost?

I guess there's a chance I might be satisfied with the Ultimate's standard Power Gravity flush, but if not I'd like to have the option of upgrading to GMAX.

Many thanks,
Chris

Is (Ultimate + upgraded flush valve) == Ultramax? - continued

4. After doing some digging, it looks like I would need to change the fill valve (taller?) as well to upgrade from Ultimate to Ultramax, is that correct?

Thanks,
Chris

You would adjust height of the fill valve to match the taller overflow.

The hole for the flapper on a g-max is 3". If the hole on the other one is not the same diameter, nothing you can do will change it.

I'd call up whichever city department it is and request to use the Ultramax, if that's what you want to use. They might be willing to give it to you even if it's not on the list.

Thanks to all..

Terry:

Thanks for the reply. After seeing your reply, I noticed that Korky sells only one fill valve for both GMAX and PowerGravity toilets, suggesting that the height can be adjusted to accommodate both (in line with your suggestion).

BTW - Great site! I've learned a great here, that's how I decided to purchase a Drake, and I did the install myself (the first toilet I've ever installed!). I couldn't be more happy with the Drake. Unfortunately, my local supplier's prices arent as good as yours.

Jim:

The Power Gravity flush system uses a 3" flush valve/flapper just like GMAX, so I believe that I can install the GMAX flush valve on the Ultimate.

TPA:

I did call the city's water conservation dept. The reason for not including the Ultramax is because it utilizes an early closing flapper (compared to the Ultimate). They are trying to prevent the situation where a homeowner might install the incorrect flapper causing the toilet to consume more than 1.6GPF.

For example, if a homeowner replaces the standard Ultramax flapper (red flapper) with the Ultimate flapper (blue flapper), then the Ultramax will consume more than 1.6GPF. I'm told the reason is because the GMAX system flapper (red) closes earlier than the PowerGravity (blue) flapper. So putting the later closing blue flapper on the Ultramax would cause more water consumption.

With the Ultimate, you don't have this situation.. If you replace the standard blue flapper with another blue one you still get 1.6GPF. If you replace the standard blue one with the earlier closing red one (for GMAX) then I guess you get less than 1.6GPF [and perhaps a toilet that doesn't work so well ].

Sadly, for the above reason this means that no GMAX toilets are on the "approved" for rebate list.

I'm surprised. I'd call them and ask if it is a 1.6 gallon flush toilet (i.e., any new toilet), it should work. They may let you install one and still get the credit.

Jim...

Already did. The Ultramax, or any other 1.6GPF toilet, not explicitly included on their list will not qualify. They only approve toilets that won't use more than 1.6GPF even if the wrong flapper is installed. Therefore, GMAX toilets don't meet the criteria (since they rely on an earlier closing flapper).

See the following:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/watercon/toiletrebatelist.htm#chosen

and:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/watercon/dnqtoilet.htm

Without looking at the list, this seems very short-sighted. Most of the toilets use the height of the water column to give it the oomph to actually flush well. A toilet that actually empties the tank probably won't, and you'd then have to flush a second or third time, totally negating th expected water savings.

Burocrats....