Concealed Gas Union

Kelly

Kelly

Builder/Remodeler
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Boerne, Texas
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Well, I tried to find this in y'all's archives, but you can't do a search for "gas" or "LP" or "natural gas" on here, so I struck out.

The question is, can a union in a gas line be permanently concealed in a wall cavity?

As in this photo in a thread over to the Tile Your World forum.

Somebody wander over there and straighten me out, wouldja?

CX
 
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absolutely not!

I find them in the crawl spaces and basements of older homes.

that's not done any more. can you say BOOM :rolleyes:
 
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Forgot To Suggest

use a left rirgt coupling in it's place. If you don't know of this do a search on this forum. h. d. stocks them in 1/2" and 3/4"
 
The answer to your question is No and there should not be any galvanized pipe there.
 
Thanks, y'all. :)

Toolaholic: I thought the left/right couplings were in the same category as unions and compression fittings and such when it came to concealed gas fittings. Not so?

Cass: Someone else mentioned the galvanized pipe to me. My plumber has always told me we could use galvanized pipe and fittings as well as black iron. What's the negative for the galvanized?
 
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galvanized pipe and gas

you are not supposed to use galv pipe

with gas lines because the Zinc coating inside the

galv pipe will start to flake off in big particles and clog up gas controlls

causeing explosions in some cases


your plumber should already know this....

looks like he really plastered the white teflon dope
all over the place in that install....
 
Ah, the flaking galvanizing somehow sounds familiar now. Is that actually in the code, or just something we're s'posta know?
Mark said:
your plumber should already know this....
Click to expand...
Yeah, well I would certainly have expected his plumber to know about the concealed union, too, but....

I just hate to be the one to tell him he's gotta tear out his newly constructed shower bench - again - and have the plumbing re-done - again. :rolleyes:

How 'bout you come over here and 'splain him for us, Mark? :)

CX
 
The UPC states:

1211.10 Where unions are necessary, right and left
nipples and couplings shall be used. Ground-joint
unions may be used at exposed fixture, appliance, or
equipment connections and in exposed exterior
locations immediately on the discharge side of a
building shutoff valve. Heavy duty flanged type
unions may be used in special cases, when first
approved by the Administrative Authority.
 
L R Couplings , Galv Fittings And Gas

Had plenty of jobs inspecter and signed off with both. some plumbers use galvy fittings because black iron fittings [ from China] can have sand holes in them. And thank's Winslow. Tool :D
 
Thanks, Winslow. It's now been pointed out to me over yonder as follows:
Chapter 12 - Fuel Piping

1211.3 Concealed Piping in Buildings.

1211.3.1 General. Gas piping in concealed
locations shall be installed in accordance with
this section.

1211.3.2 Connections. Where gas piping is to
be concealed, unions, tubing fittings, right and
left couplings, bushings, swing joints, and
compression couplings made by combinations of
fittings shall not be used.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Tool, we started using galvanized fittings with the black iron pipe down this way (South Texas) years ago for the same reason. Real PITA to get a whole house plumbed and have the gas lines fail leak test because a new black fitting had a hole in it. :mad:

How come we'd worry about the zinc comin' off the inside of a pipe but we don't worry similarly about the inside of the black pipe rusting and flaking off? Seems like it would cause the same kinda problem, and actually seems more likely to me that it would happen with the black pipe. We have evidence to the contrary, or somebody just think it was a good eye-dee?

My opinion; worth price charged.
 
Anything flaking off (or dripping, etc) would be caught in the drip legs--which have always been empty when I've seen them. Someone mentioned something they used to add in the NG would react with the galvanized pipe, but its also used for gas.
 
pipe

In some areas, and for some applications, galvanized is REQUIRED. Here it has to be used if it is exposed to the weather. But a left/right coupling and nipple are required for a concealed connection. The problem is that you have to know how to install it or you will have a leak.
 
It's always been my practice to use the galvanized pipe when the lines were exposed to the weather, Hi. Don't know that I've ever seen it in a code book one way or the other, though.

Also, the use of the left/right coupling seems to be one of the joining methods specifically proscribed in the list I posted above, which came directly from the UPC (1211.3.2). That not the code y'all use?

CX
 
connections

Kelly said:
It's always been my practice to use the galvanized pipe when the lines were exposed to the weather, Hi. Don't know that I've ever seen it in a code book one way or the other, though.

Also, the use of the left/right coupling seems to be one of the joining methods specifically proscribed in the list I posted above, which came directly from the UPC (1211.3.2). That not the code y'all use?

If you use that list, then there is no way to make a connection into an existing pipe, other than to take it apart until you reach a point where you can cut and thread the new tee in, and then put everything back together again. Not a viable alternative if you are in the middle of an extensive gas system.
Click to expand...
 
H J left rights are sure handy

I've never concealed one . they only come galvey, as far as i've seen.

I guess drip legs would take care of any [so called flaking problems.
 
hj said:
If you use that list, then there is no way to make a connection into an existing pipe, other than to take it apart until you reach a point where you can cut and thread the new tee in, and then put everything back together again. Not a viable alternative if you are in the middle of an extensive gas system.
Click to expand...
I sure understand the concern, hj, but I've always been required to take it apart until a union could be installed in an attic or crawl space or such. Yep, big PITA for sure. 'Specially irksome when you gotta take it apart alla way to the incoming when it's just been installed in new construction and the leak is one of those new black-iron fittings with the hole in it. :mad:

CX
 
using galv fittings with black iron pipe wasen't my idea

It's from " plumbing a house " by Peter Hemp

He works out of my area of Ca. Again , I've had many remodels signed off
with galvy fittings without a comment. Peter swiched to galvy, because of the ocasional hole in BLACK IRON FITTINGS . :rolleyes:
 
Where I was learned (MN), left-right couplings are not allowed, bushings and unions are not allowed to be concealed, copper (brazed) and galvanized pipe are preferred, although black iron is still allowed indoors, outdoors if primed and painted.

A note about galvanized iron pipe. In years back, galvanized pipe was produced by dipping iron pipe into a zinc solution. This produced a galvanized coating that was prone to flaking, thus the prohibition of galvanized piping in the past. Nowadays, galvanized piping is produced by hot-dipping, or electolytically charging the zinc solution to the steel. This results in a much better bond to the underlying steel. As a result, galvanized piping is now allowed.

Of course, up here we also don't allow teflon tape on gas threads, be it yellow or black or whatever. We also mandate a dirt, or drip leg prior to any regulator or contol valves.
 
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