Melissa2007B
Member
That one says for outside access only? Like outside the house? This one is in the laundry room.
Sears told me that they only had a 30 gallon that would work, not acceptable.
Trying to keep a water heater replacement from turning into a disaster.
- Thread starter Melissa2007B
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That one says for outside access only? Like outside the house? This one is in the laundry room.
Sears told me that they only had a 30 gallon that would work, not acceptable.
Cwhyu2
Consultant
I`m sorry you are have so much trouble getting a water heater replacement, and this just a thought but have you considered tankless.
Research a little, wish I could be more help.
Research a little, wish I could be more help.
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Melissa2007B
Member
We have, and we have 3 bathrooms here and the kitchen. I understand it would be around $700 each, plus a HUGE cost to run a separate electric hookup to them.
THEN again, this is a modular house and though it's on a foundation with a crawl space, it still has insulation and plastic sheeting underneath it, which would have to be removed for that.
AND if things really hit the fan, like we expect any time ( as in global economic Collapse, the likes of which has never been seen before, from all the out of control government shenanigans in recent years ) and we have no electricity for 6-12 months, THEN WHAT? We may still have water and natural gas, but maybe no electricity. So electric instant heaters may not be a good idea, even if the above weren't the case.
Cwhyu2
Consultant
I understand your concerns, but there are gas fired tankless water heater for whole house, and yes they do require electric but it can go in the same place as your old water heater.I will post a picture of one my installs.
Cwhyu2
Consultant
Melissa2007B
Member
Interesting, thanks. Wonder what they cost?
So they'd never have a tank go bad, and would last for how long?
Wonder if they could be run in a situation where there was no electric but we still had water and gas?
Also wonder if they can overcome the prudent temperature setting for a tank type and allow us to set the temp higher?
My sister's bath is at the far end of the house from the water heater and the water is barely hot by the time it gets there. But if we could set it for 160, for example...
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Melissa2007B
Member
This doesn't look good: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Ec...ater-Heater-ECO200XLP3/203163885#.UZGHlP28G8E
only a 35 degree rise? So if the water is 35, it heats to 70?
Hmm, I see some better ones...
Bosch Pro 635 ES, 3 GPM at a 90 degree rise. Looks like $1200.
Wish I could get this installed tonight.
Oh... found an old thread here that says Bosch aint so great, Rinnai is!
only a 35 degree rise? So if the water is 35, it heats to 70?
Hmm, I see some better ones...
Bosch Pro 635 ES, 3 GPM at a 90 degree rise. Looks like $1200.
Wish I could get this installed tonight.
Oh... found an old thread here that says Bosch aint so great, Rinnai is!
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Jerome2877
In the Trades
Ok, I have your solution...
Call an electrician to install a 220 line from your panel to the closet (tell him its for a 40 gal hwt) then call a local plumber and have them install a 40 gal electric tank and cap the gas line. The recovery rate is much longer than gas but if its just 2 of you this should be ok and its your cheapest solution.
Call an electrician to install a 220 line from your panel to the closet (tell him its for a 40 gal hwt) then call a local plumber and have them install a 40 gal electric tank and cap the gas line. The recovery rate is much longer than gas but if its just 2 of you this should be ok and its your cheapest solution.
Melissa2007B
Member
Oh heck no. Natural gas is down in price something like 80% in recent years and electricity is killing us as it is.
Melissa2007B
Member
Does this sound right? This is from a local handyman who did a little work for us before, but this just doesn't sound right. AND we can't wait for him!:
In my opinion, a tankless HW heater simply isn't the right solution for you. It typically will require a larger gas supply line be run, as well as a new different type of exhaust - these tare needed because of the amount of gas they burn per minute (a lot) and the amount of exhaust (and high temps) that are generated. They start at about $1,000 for the heater, and a bunch more to install them, especially in a retrofit situation where you may need new supply and new exhaust lines run. They also will never give you "instant" hot water the way you are wanting it (which is why we talked about A RECIRC SYSTEM). A recirc system only works if it has a reservoir of existing hot water to recirculate the water from and back to. A tankless heater has no
reservoir, so it can never deliver "instant" hot water…just unlimited hot water. So, a large family with a lot of people taking showers at the same time every day might find a tankless heater of specific benefit, because they wouldn't run out of hot water. Not really your situation.
But even with a tankless "unlimited" hot water solution, you still have to wait for the water to run for a couple of minutes and watch the water (= money) go down the drain while waiting for the water to get hot at the points of use. A tankless heater doesn't change that at all, and it can never be fitted with a recirc pump, so you can never add that feature to a tankless heater later on, like you could with a tank-type heater. Lastly, they are complex products with circuit boards inside, and need to be cleaned and maintained regularly to avoid expensive service calls…and probably won't last as long as a good tank-type heater, which costs less than half as much. For people who are usually "home" a good part of the day, or in-and-out, and are using water periodically, a tank-type heater is actually pretty efficient. If you had a vacation home that was only used on weekends, that might be different... and thus a tankless system might make sense…especially if it were installed when the home was being built
(new construction).
We would be glad to install a new tank-type heater for you, but we don't have any available time until later this week….Wed or Thurs at earliest. We are usually booked between 1-2 weeks out, so new jobs coming in are usually put into
the queue and get done in about that amount of time…sometimes longer, depending on the size of the job, and how much time we need to spend sourcing materials.
If you know where we can buy the type of heater that's required for your modular home (do they carry them at Home Depot?), please let us know….and we can give you a quote to put one in for you. But it won't be until later in the week, due
to existing commitments. Sorry I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but we just don't have empty slots on the work schedule….we're full. We could fit this in, but not until later this week.
Please let [name] know if you want to have us do it…and IF SO, also let her know if you know where we can procure the correct type heater for your home. Thanks!
In my opinion, a tankless HW heater simply isn't the right solution for you. It typically will require a larger gas supply line be run, as well as a new different type of exhaust - these tare needed because of the amount of gas they burn per minute (a lot) and the amount of exhaust (and high temps) that are generated. They start at about $1,000 for the heater, and a bunch more to install them, especially in a retrofit situation where you may need new supply and new exhaust lines run. They also will never give you "instant" hot water the way you are wanting it (which is why we talked about A RECIRC SYSTEM). A recirc system only works if it has a reservoir of existing hot water to recirculate the water from and back to. A tankless heater has no
reservoir, so it can never deliver "instant" hot water…just unlimited hot water. So, a large family with a lot of people taking showers at the same time every day might find a tankless heater of specific benefit, because they wouldn't run out of hot water. Not really your situation.
But even with a tankless "unlimited" hot water solution, you still have to wait for the water to run for a couple of minutes and watch the water (= money) go down the drain while waiting for the water to get hot at the points of use. A tankless heater doesn't change that at all, and it can never be fitted with a recirc pump, so you can never add that feature to a tankless heater later on, like you could with a tank-type heater. Lastly, they are complex products with circuit boards inside, and need to be cleaned and maintained regularly to avoid expensive service calls…and probably won't last as long as a good tank-type heater, which costs less than half as much. For people who are usually "home" a good part of the day, or in-and-out, and are using water periodically, a tank-type heater is actually pretty efficient. If you had a vacation home that was only used on weekends, that might be different... and thus a tankless system might make sense…especially if it were installed when the home was being built
(new construction).
We would be glad to install a new tank-type heater for you, but we don't have any available time until later this week….Wed or Thurs at earliest. We are usually booked between 1-2 weeks out, so new jobs coming in are usually put into
the queue and get done in about that amount of time…sometimes longer, depending on the size of the job, and how much time we need to spend sourcing materials.
If you know where we can buy the type of heater that's required for your modular home (do they carry them at Home Depot?), please let us know….and we can give you a quote to put one in for you. But it won't be until later in the week, due
to existing commitments. Sorry I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but we just don't have empty slots on the work schedule….we're full. We could fit this in, but not until later this week.
Please let [name] know if you want to have us do it…and IF SO, also let her know if you know where we can procure the correct type heater for your home. Thanks!
WJcandee
Wise One
Kinda. I did a little research on this. Many mobile homes were built with an alcove for the water heater that was accessed through an external door. This allowed for venting to the alcove from outside (a vented door), providing the necessary combustion air through the vent in the door, and, by dint of being in a separate "room", reduced the chance that carbon monoxide would back up into the house. You still need a "mobile home" water heater to meet Code when you have an outside access door, apparently, but an Outside Access one is different from a "Direct Vent" (the DV in your Warrior's model number) mobile home water heater that is rated for use in an interior closet with no outside access. It was actually all explained pretty well at the mobilehomestuffstore web site, which sells your 21I40DV for almost a grand, and an "outside access" one for about $250 less. The Sears equivalent "outside access" one is about $250 less than that, so it's too bad that Sears don't have a model that suits your needs, given their lower markup and that they only charge an extra $50 (over their regular install charge) to install it in a mobile home.
That said, there are plenty of folks posting online who claim to have put a "regular" water heater in such a situation, allegedly with no problems, but it appears that the Sears folks are only willing to work to Code, which is, of course, in a way reassuring even if it doesn't help you...
I know a guy who had a well-known professional tennis player die in his pool house when overcome by carbon monoxide from an improperly-installed gas water heater, so there's a fair argument that it's important to do this stuff right, and to have it done by a real plumber who knows what he's doing with this stuff. The bad part about gas water heaters is that their poisonous emissions don't have an odor; I am amazed how many folks don't realize that "clean burning" gas produces poisonous emissions -- even the burners on your gas stove.
One other issue that nobody has mentioned that comes up in the literature is that if you install a hot water heater that is not mobile home rated (H.U.D. safety rating) and is not the proper kind (direct vent sealed combustion vs outside access), besides being "illegal", your insurance company is entitled to cancel your coverage and perhaps refuse to pay claims.
One thing is clear from your handyman's post, and that is that he doesn't have experience putting the proper water heater in your home. I know that the person who sold you the home recommended only one guy, who sounds like he knows what he is doing, but I wonder if it wasn't a good idea suggested by the forum participant who thought you could call around to various mobile home parks and ask who they use to replace hot water heaters. If it's the same guy that you called, that's worth knowing. If they have another plumber, that might be good to know, too.
Good luck. Sorry this has sucked.
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Jerome2877
In the Trades
Some is right some isn't,
The gas line does require 3/4" for most on demand heaters (yours looks like 1/2") Navien now makes one that works with a 1/2" line but its not cheap!! Navien NPE around $1800.
Recirc pumps can be used but in my opinion kinda defeats the purpose of on demand.
They do need regular maintenance to get good life from them.
I agree its not the best solution for you.
Also I wouldn't trust a handyman to install anything gas related and where I'm from its not legal to have anyone but a gas fitter do the job.
The gas line does require 3/4" for most on demand heaters (yours looks like 1/2") Navien now makes one that works with a 1/2" line but its not cheap!! Navien NPE around $1800.
Recirc pumps can be used but in my opinion kinda defeats the purpose of on demand.
They do need regular maintenance to get good life from them.
I agree its not the best solution for you.
Also I wouldn't trust a handyman to install anything gas related and where I'm from its not legal to have anyone but a gas fitter do the job.
DonL
Jack of all trades Master of one
Sounds like it would have been easier to fix the old water heater.
What a deal.
What a deal.
WJcandee
Wise One
Just doing a little more research for you, Melissa. Here's another option: http://www.americanwaterheater.com/products/pdf/lpg81.pdf That's a sealed combustion direct-vent 40 gallon mobile home HUD certified water heater made by American. Lowe's has it for $644.50, but it will take 2 weeks (as you noted), to arrive if you get it from them. However, I wonder if someone else in your area might not have it. American is owned by A.O. Smith, the same folks that make State.
Melissa2007B
Member
I'd love to, but have been trying for 5 days to get someone.
Jerome2877
In the Trades
I assumed the tank was done.. How old is the tank? Anything over 10 years and there is no point in fixing it as it will probably leak the next day!
Melissa2007B
Member
Yay! Found a good couple of guys who came over tonight and did it! Getting ready to go in for one soon! They brought an exact replacement ( Rheem even ) and had it in there in 2 hours flat! Whew!
Thanks guys, for all the suggestions and help!
Thanks guys, for all the suggestions and help!
Jerome2877
In the Trades
Good to hear!! How much did it end up costing? I'm thinking "one" means a shower... enjoy it and have a good sleep lol!
Melissa2007B
Member
WJcandee
Wise One
$1200 with tax. And YES, ONE!Happy happy joy joy...!
Decent price for a Rheem Warrior DV installed. If you want to share the company name, we'll have it "on file" for next time.
