Fleck 2500 control valve and help with softener maintenance

How often is your system cleaning?
Every 6 or 12days?
It is a bit hard to tell in the photo how many pins in the 12 day wheel are out.
It is a bit hard to tell the number of pins and spaces that make up the total time on the timer wheel on the back side of the timer.

Bottom line has there been days that the water was not GOOD?
If the water has been good 365 days then what is the problem?

Some like to make others think there is a problem when there is none.

I've tried regenerating several periods, from every 3, 4, 6, and 12 days, and don't feel much difference in the water. So, the temptation is to leave it at every 12 days, and test for hardness over time, but it just seems to me that there should be a way to calculate the optimal interval. Don't know what I would do if the calculation said 9 days, which is the only argument for a "modern" timer that I can see.

Pins in the timer wheel are: 0 2 4 6 8, 70 72 74, 82 84

Same situation in the carbon filter as far as regeneration period.

Pins in the timer wheel are: 0 2 4 6 8, 16 18, 24 26

Mikey said:

Basic data: Well water, 8gpg hardness, 0.9 mg/L Iron, 7.5 pH, H2S < 0.1 Mn 0. 2 people, average water usage for the last 9 years is 105 gpd. Resin tank is a 10x54, 1.5 cu ft.

According to Gary's sizing chart, I need 1392 Daily Grains of Capacity, so I need 11136 Total Grains of capacity for once-per-week regeneration with a 24-hr reserve. I understand all that, but unfortunately Gary's next step says to set my control valve for a capacity of 12,800, and my old-fashioned valve just has pins and skipper wheels. It's a Fleck controller of unknown lineage left with a couple of Service Manuals (one for "2510 and 2510 Econominder", and one for "2750 Downflow Control Valve") that may or may not apply, but in any case seem to be written for somebody who knows what he's doing, which would not be me, yet.

Based on the manual, I think I've got a 3200 Timer, but I'm not sure about the valve. Can anybody tell me from the attached pictures what it might be, and how I convert from modern-day digital advice to pins-in-pinwheels?

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The lbs of salt used per regeneration dictate the K of capacity. I.E. i you need 13,000 (13K) you divide the 13,000 by the salt efficiency you want, I use 3333 grains/lb. So 13,000/3333 = the lbs of salt you need; that's total lbs not per cuft.

On your valve you set the amount of water required to dissolve 3lbs/gallon based on your BLFC which usually is .5gal/min which is 1.5 lbs/min.

The valve should be the 2510 and the minutes of brine refill is what you need to set. IIRC, with a black brine control valve cam, that is the holes before the last two pins. Each hole or pin is 2 minutes. The BLFC info should be on a sticker etc. somewhere on the valve, IIRC usually by where the drain line connects to the valve.

Again IIRC (it's been awhile since I programed a 2510)... The first set of pins is backwash, then a pause, then slow rinse/brine draw, then rinse, then pause then brine refill and then back to service.

The primary reason for a metered valve is to reduce water and salt use but a day timer usually works well for a household that has a more or less constant water use pattern but still will use more water and salt.

IMO to change yours to a metered version would be more expensive than buying a new valve. And if you were thinking of doing that you'd be better off replacing the whole softener.

Gary Slusser said:

IMO to change yours to a metered version would be more expensive than buying a new valve. And if you were thinking of doing that you'd be better off replacing the whole softener.

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Thanks, Gary. I do have a black cam (which the 2510 manual calls an "STF" cam). Haven't noticed any BLFC stickers but I'll look for it. If a new valve would save water & salt, I'd maybe be interested, but I wonder what you mean by replacing the "whole softener". All that's left if I replace the valve is the tank and the brine tank, which don't look like they need replacing. Unless the tailpiece and bypass assembly wouldn't mate up with the new valve, presumably a Fleck of some kind? If I do change, now is the time, since I'm rearranging the whole system for several reasons.

If you do change it, the 2510SXT, 5600 Econominder, 5600SXT, Pro-flo, 5800SXT, and 6700 all use the same tailpeice and bypass. The 7000SXT uses a larger bypass different tailpieces (plumbing connectors).

The standard way of programming a timeclock softener is as follows

System capacity / hardness = systems total gallon capacity, / by average daily gallon usage= days between regeenrations, - 1 day (reserve)

Example, if this is a 1.5 cu. ft system and it is set to 6 pounds of salt per cu. ft. or 9 lbs total, the system would be rated for a total of 30,000 grains. divide that by the actual hardness of 15 grains = 2000 gallons total capacity. Average daily water usage should be approximately 120 gallons, so 2000 gallons total capacity / 120 gallons average daily usage = 16 days between regenerations. You should set it to 12 days and you will be fine.

Hope this helps.

It looks to me that the sticker has fallen off. If you look at where the brine line connects to the brine valve, it appears the sticker was there which wrapped aroung the brine valve. To check the BLFC flow rate, put the unit in a refill cycle, disconnect the brine tubing from the float assembly and measure for 1 minute. I would say it has a .5 BLFC which is a standard size but not possitive.

Looks like the black sticker, .5 GPM, 1.5# salt per minute. I think I see some silver printing on the sticker, I have tried to enhance the BLFC, what do you think?

Good job of photoenhancing; I'll recommend you to the NRO. I enhanced it a whole lot more by cleaning the grime off the sticker, and right you are. I think I'm in good shape for now; any opinions/recommendations re 2510SXT, 5600 Econominder, 5600SXT, Pro-flo, 5800SXT, and 6700?

My personal preference of those valves, the 2510SXT for now, maybe the 5800SXT in the near future once we have a few more months on the test bench with it. The 2510SXT is a workhorse, the only problem with it is the turbine meter. These usually last for a very long time, but when they do fail, they are very expensive to replace. All of the Fleck valves share the same meter except for the 7000 which uses a much better, cheaper, more reliable meter. That being said, I only replace a few of the 2510/5600/5800 meter assemblies a month, for the massive number of them out in the field, that is an amazing number and proves just how incredibely reliable the part is. The main problem with the meter is when people allow the weight of the plumbing to hang on it, so it is not really the meters problem, more of an installation issue. Other than that, the 2510 series Fleck valve is a great choice.

Thanks again. Anybody who goes through over 20 tons of underbedding gravel per month is probably worth listening to. I'm going to hang on to the one I'm using for now, and wait for the Lotto people to pick the right numbers before switching to something fancy.

Your current system is one of the best units available. It is extremely reliable, easy to maintain, the only negative is the lack of a meter. Many municipalities now require the installation of a meter or sensor device on all new water softener installations. For your application, it might save you a bag of salt per year, so it is really not a big deal. It would be hard to justify replacing it for that. If it were a sears unit, or home depot special, I would recommend replacing it after that many years.

Congrats onhaving a great high quality unit!

ditttohead said:

Congrats onhaving a great high quality unit!

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Thanks; wish I could take credit for it. The guy that installed it was highly recommended in the neighborhood. Gave me what I thought at the time was a good price. Now I'm not so sure, but it's a case of his knowing where to hit it, if you remember the old water heater repair joke. Didn't need no steenking water test, just put it in, told me to keep the chlorine tank and brine tank filled, and left. That was 11 years ago, so I guess I shouldn't have any complaints. But being a retired engineer, I had to know more about it, and now I do -- thanks, guys!

One more question, though -- while I was poking around in the unit trying to take its picture, I noticed the timer motor was hotter'n a 2-dollar pistol. Is this normal?

Mikey said:

Thanks, Gary. I do have a black cam (which the 2510 manual calls an "STF" cam). Haven't noticed any BLFC stickers but I'll look for it. If a new valve would save water & salt, I'd maybe be interested, but I wonder what you mean by replacing the "whole softener". All that's left if I replace the valve is the tank and the brine tank, which don't look like they need replacing. Unless the tailpiece and bypass assembly wouldn't mate up with the new valve, presumably a Fleck of some kind? If I do change, now is the time, since I'm rearranging the whole system for several reasons.

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If you price a metered valve and compare it to the price of a whole new softener, (that includes new resin too) you won't pay much more than the price of the new valve. Then you could sell your present unit for a couple hundred... or give it to someone that can't afford to buy one.

Gary Slusser said:

If you price a metered valve and compare it to the price of a whole new softener, (that includes new resin too) you won't pay much more than the price of the new valve. Then you could sell your present unit for a couple hundred... or give it to someone that can't afford to buy one.

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Yeah, I just found that out this morning, but haven't made any serious calls yet. Several vendors even throw in a free SS bypass valve, which I don't need, but WTH. For now I'm going to stick with the old reliable 2510, but will keep the metered option in the back of my mind, and maybe put one on my **** watch list.

The timer motor on that unit runs very hot, this is normal. The mechanical designs always leave a motor running so excessive heat will build up.

I also have what looks like a Fleck 2500

http://goo.gl/jPnpps

It was installed in 1980 or 1981

Are there rebuild kits ? or even just a gasket kit ? Can't seem to find much on the 2500 on the pentairaqua site. Most everything is for the 2510.

-pete

Parts are readily available for that control valve. Rebuilding it is fairly simple. A special tool for installing the seals is highly recommended. PM sent.