Do I need a softener?

I advise my customers not to use pelleted salt. Humidity in New England during the summer months is legendary. I have no issues with or without a grid. It's a pretty cheap piece of equipment. As for mattress parts and zinc legs.....you are on your own.

Ok, someone explain to me how with or without a salt grid, that changes how dirty a salt tank gets? The same amount of salt used equals the same amount of sludge in the bottom of the tank, on the grid, in the drid lefs, or anywhere else.

Disadvantage is less salt capacity.

The comments from a previous post was a poor attempt at trolling, trying to make contreversy where none exists, just keep feeding line... something will bite.

If it matters, approximately 70% of our systems go out with a salt grid, but it is not for the "advantages" of a salt grid, it is part of the system design, we sell primarulr stackable brine tanks and the grid holds the brine well in place instead of the usual overflow fitting.

A brine grid does not prevent overflowing in a timed refill system either, again, anyone other than the person who made this odd claim tell me where I am wrong. I think 3 gallons of water is still 3 gallons of water, grid or not. A grid is primarily used for applications where a smaller brine tank is needed. In some applications, it can lessen bridging as well. Regarding commercial systems and salt grids, how many underground salt reservoirs have you put a grid in? How many Brine tanks over 100" diameter have you put a grid in?

Salt bridging, as I stated, in certain regions, crystal salt vs, solar can make a huge difference. Humidity caused bridging can usually be lessened with crystal salt, temperature change salt bridgin can often be made less of a problem with pellets and can be almost eliminated with a brine fill first programming sequence.... I did not think it was necessay to really elaborate in this much detail, but since someone is determined to argue every comment and to also make claims that I have no clue, even though we have sold tens of thousands of softeners all over the country, and not just in California.

Lastly, someone explain to me how a smaller brine tank will allow you to buy salt less frequently??? Maybe it is "oppsoite day", or maybe it is "argue everything Ditto says day" no matter how ridiculous it sounds.

Try to read through other peoples posts with an open mind, learn from the professionals on this site, several of them have frequently offered great advice only to be told they are wrong in every way.

If one was to say where the salt bridge would take place I would go with Cabin models in either first or second place that are of the Sears and GE brand..

More times than not on a service call from a customer with the system not working right, I find the salt bridge and it is that type of system, now that is not to say that any other system could have the salt bridge ...

(sing sing sing Carnegie Hall 1938)

I have found them in other systems, but the sears are at the head of the list.

lol, try it using potassium, guaranteed to bridge within a few regenerations. We almost refuse to sell people systems who want to use patassium unless they use a brine fill first programming capable control valve. We order the 7000 special with that. Same valve, same everything except for a different color brine cam, and the programming will factory deafult to brine fill first if anyone ever tries a hard reset.

Now that is kind of interesting, any number of customers here where using the potassium chloride before the price became like gold and where in fill last systems and had no problems with bridging, Hague Gold Crown systems....

The proprietary systems we sell that are using the Clask WS1 valve come through with a grid but we get systems from another supplier, typically using Fleck heads that do not. It makes ZERO difference in the cleanliness of the brine tank on way or the other. In fact, I can't see where grid or no grid makes any difference at all

In the interest of fairness to other valve makers... is there a Clack valve that would be equivalent (or better) than the 7000SXT?

F6Hawk said:

In the interest of fairness to other valve makers... is there a Clack valve that would be equivalent (or better) than the 7000SXT?

Click to expand...

Yes, the WS1 or the ws125 are a great match up to the 7000SXT. Both valves have a few flaws, and a few advantages over eachother but if a person has either one, then they have one of the best valves available. Ultra high flowing, larger manifold assembly, excellent bypass designs, highly accurate and inexpensive meters, optical sequencing, etc.

Really a Ford Vs. Chevy argument that could never be won by either side.

Regarding bridging and potassium, it can be almost eliminated in two ways, keep the tamperature constant, or as close as possible, or do a brine fill first programming and you will rarely have a bridging issue.

25 ounces of potassium chloride will dissolve in one gallon of water at 50 degrees Fahrenheit.

28 ounces at 60 degrees Fahrenheit, this is over a 10% increase with a 10 degree temperature change. Not too bad if that is the only change. Now in AZ where the system is installed in the garage, a night time temperature of 60 degrees, and a daytime temperature of over 110 is not unusual. A 50 degre temperature change causes a massive difference in the amount of potassium dissolved in the water, when the temperature drops, the salts precipitate out of solution and cause the caking (bridging) issue that we are all so fimiliar with. Salt manufacturers have even sent out bulletins about this with suggestions of putting the brine tank off the floor, wrapping the brine tank (like a water heater jacket) etc. All of these solutions do little in these extremes.

Potassium Cloride based units will rarely bridge if the Brine fill first, or regulated temperature brine tank installation is followed, if not, then it is more likely to bridge.

Well, I plan on using NaCl, no Potato Chloride here. And not sure if it will help with bridging at all, but I also plan on adding an insulating jacket, due to the cold temps of winter water.

Cold won't bother the salt, it's the humidity that can cause problems.

Werd. But after a cold brine fill in a warm house, I figgered that would attract/cause moisture.

Here's my settings now that I have it all installed:

DF set to Gal
VT set to dF2b
CT set to Fd
C Set to 36.0
H set to 10
RS set to SF (But I would like to learn of the benefits of Fixed Reserve Capacity or Variable Reserve)
sf set to 10
DO set 21
RT set to 2:00
B1 set to 10
BD set to 60
B2 set to 5
RR set to 10
BF set to 12 (default), but I think it SHOULD be 32, based on BLFC of 0.125?
FM set to t1.2

If I understand correctly, the SF is setting the "lead time" for the regen, basically allowing soft water to be had until 0200 the next day after total calculated gallons have been used, is this correct? What about the other settings, Fixed Reserve Capacity or Variable Reserve? Is there a benefit to be realized by using either of these settings instead?

How do I determine my DLFC?

I am heading off to hockey, so I will answer the more complex questions tomorrow. You are correct in setting your BF to 32, If you water is clear, then set your B1 to 5 minutes, and your RR can also be set to 5 minutes.
DLFC, remove the grey clip that holds the 90 degree drain line adapter in, and remove the fitting. Inside is a rubber button with a hole in the middle. You should see numbers. Thos number correspond to the flow. 120 = 1.2, 240 = 2.4 350 = 3.5, and so on. Assuming you have a 10" tank and normal temp water, you should have a 2.4 gpm button.

Yes, it is a 2.4 button. And yes, a 10" tank, but water temps are lower here. How will that figure in?

The viscosity of water changes with water temperature. Cold water will backwash resin more than warm water will. A top screen should be installed in locations where water temperatures vary considerably. See the attached chart for more detailed information. Many companies do not use a top screen, but if very cold water is the norm, a smaller DLFC button and a top screen may be in order.

Just ran the tap to see... it came out initially at 70°, 30 seconds later, it hit 90°, then back to 70° at about 60 seconds. Let it run another minute, and it steadily crept down to 49~50°.

The 70° makes sense, cuz the house stays between 65-70°. I have NO idea how it hit 90°. That has never happened before. The cold water always comes out cold, and gets colder, period.

Back in mid-March https://terrylove.com/forums/showth...eed-a-softener&p=338267&viewfull=1#post338267, it was as cold as 42°. Based on this, should I reduce my backwash times, or change the DLFC? And as for adding a screen, how to do that? Is it flexible, and can it be slipped down over the tube in the tank?

If your temperature is 42 degrees, I would change the DLFC to a 2.0 GPM. A top screen will simply lock into the valve. If you unscrew the valve, you would simply twist to lock the screen onto the head. This will slip over the riser tube.

Do not shorten the backwash time to correct cold water issues, this will not work, it is a matter of bed expension.

Without a top screen, a lot of people check their resin tanks a few years later and notice that a lot of resing is simply missing. They start to get hard water before the system regenerates, and then they call a service tech.

Regarding the 90 degree water, does your plumbing go through the attic? Attics out here can get well over 120 degrees on a nice day.

No, the water comes in from the crawlspace, down into my basement (currently at 55°) where the softener is, then up from there to the first and second floors. In the past, I typically got room temp water for 30-60 seconds, and it progressively got colder. Last night was the first time since I have lived here that I noticed a warming followed by cooler temps. It is weird. I DID take a bath prior to that, and am thinking perhaps the cold water pipe is under the tub prior to going into the sink, and the radiant heat form the tub warmed the pipe. That is all I can think of.

There are some excellent plumbers on this forum, maybe they know what can cause this. I am stumped about the rise to 90 degrees, but your conclusion makes some sense. The common causes of temperature rise will keep the water at an elevated temperature.

I was at a major hotel chain a few months ago doing a survey walk for some water treamtent for a company we supply. A lady cam out of the bathroom and asked if we worked there or had anything to do with the water. She then started telling us in detail about how she almost burned herself when she sat on the toilet, the water was steaming hot in the toilet! It was over 140 degrees, needless to say we found the problem quite easily but the panicked look on her face... she acted like she had never seen a toilet with hot water before.

I'm assuming you are not talking about 17.............................1..............................18280.................................. Collector, Top, 1" x .011, Gray from the service manual, but a larger-diameter, finer mesh screen? Any idea if it has a part number? Google and I can't seem to find one.

Thanks!