Should hospitals and doctors have this right?

http://news.yahoo.com/canada-boy-treated-u-hospital-refuses-dies-220338477.html

My opinion is, no.

Yeah, but come on this whole things smacks of the "American way" when it comes to health.

And I quote: "While in the U.S. hospital, the boy was given a tracheotomy to allow easier breathing and sent back to his home in Windsor, Canada"

To an outsider, this means that if you turn up at a US hospital uninsured, they will stabilize you but not treat you.

And it sucks.

Really?

Ian Gills said:

Yeah, but come on this whole things smacks of the "American way" when it comes to health.

And I quote: "While in the U.S. hospital, the boy was given a tracheotomy to allow easier breathing and sent back to his home in Windsor, Canada"

To an outsider, this means that if you turn up at a US hospital uninsured, they will stabilize you but not treat you.

And it sucks.

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To me, it sounds like the docs in Canada said "he's going to die anyway, why bother to waste our time and money to comfort him"

Exactly, Bob.
That is messed up.

To me it sounds like the American hospital just stuck a tube in and thought "not our problem".

Ian Gills said:

... this whole things smacks of the "American way" when it comes to health.

And I quote: "While in the U.S. hospital, the boy was given a tracheotomy to allow easier breathing and sent back to his home in Windsor, Canada."

To an outsider, this means that if you turn up at a US hospital uninsured, they will stabilize you but not treat you.

And it sucks.

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That is some of my own experience. Over several months, my BP had steadily risen to 250/140 last December, and I dialed 911 and was transported to an ER and then spent two days being stabilized in an ICU ... and then they moved me to a regular room and stopped checking my vital signs altogether so they could send me back home without ever getting to the root of my problem three days after that. Fortunately, however, I know of a sympathetic doctor who is willing to prescribe the extra BP medication I need as long as I pay him cash since he does not accept Medicaid patients at all.

Fortunately, however, I know of a sympathetic doctor who is willing to prescribe the extra BP medication I need as long as I pay him cash since he does not accept Medicaid patients at all

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My view is that if a doctor wants to be trained at public institutions (many), have admitting priviledges at a tax exempt hospital (most), or want to receive insurance payments from a plan which qualifies for tax deductability under IRS regulations (even more), he/she should be required to accept medicare and medicaid. And it is reaching the point where the cost of medical services will need to be tied to the medicare reimbursement rate if the cost of health care can be contained

LOTW said:

My view is that if a doctor wants to be trained at public institutions (many), have admitting priviledges at a tax exempt hospital (most), or want to receive insurance payments from a plan which qualifies for tax deductability under IRS regulations (even more), he/she should be required to accept medicare and medicaid. And it is reaching the point where the cost of medical services will need to be tied to the medicare reimbursement rate if the cost of health care can be contained

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Exactly, I agree, and I have not had any problems so far

All it takes too is a phone call, asking if they accept.

All it takes is a phone call?

When your BP is 250/140?

Come on. People don't have time to be calling around when they are sick.

Not in the other developed countries anyway.

I know people on Medicaid. There are those doctors and clinics, like Med Express, that do take it. Infact, come to think of it, my own oncologist takes it. So, you find in advance a doctor that you go to for check ups.

Now, if something happens, where it is an emergency, heck yeah, go to the ER. I know a plumber who had a heart attack, he didn't have insurance, while out and about on a job, he didn't feel right, and he took a Bayer ( in his work truck) drove himself to the ER, and in the ER he had a "widow-maker" heart attack and literally, flat-lined. They did CPR, brought back a heart beat and rushed him to the OR. They put a stent in, fixed him up, he was in the hospital for sometime. Today, he is on meds. He is doing fine. He is back to plumbing and being my best buddy.

You don't wait til something happens. Find a doctor, a place, a clinic, whatever which accepts your insurance whatever it is, and get regular check ups, making sure they are taking your Blood Pressure.

So, yes, Ian, all it takes is a phone call.

Lee, call around and find a doctor near you, who accepts Medicaid. This doctor should had recommended to you, other doctors who do, at least his office staff could provide you with some numbers, or even the hospital upon discharge. If they don't, then, I would get a family member if I didn't feel well, to do the calling for me. I wouldn't be paying for meds out of my own pocket, unless, I had to. Plus, you shouldn't be paying for office visits either, maybe, just your copay, which most everyone has to do, so, if you find a doctor who accepts it, it would be to your benefit. Because of my husband's death, and the military, I am able to use Medicare, and I pay extra for an insurance which closes the gap, and provides me with a Prescription plan. I was paying after he died, losing his insurance, 830.00 a month, because of pre-existing conditions, but, since I did this, I pay 152.00 a month, which is decent.

Using that boy is not a good example. He had a fatal, incurable disease. What COULD any hospital do to save his life? Nothing. The US hospital did a procedure that alledgedly eased his breathing temporarily. IF that was very appropriate, we can criticize the Canadian hospital for not doing that to ease his paiin. Maybe a stiff shot of Michael Jackson's propophol would have been better.

Much as we don't like to talk about it....if the jig is up...it's UP.

Jim, you're right. They should had eased his pain by doing that procedure. Just the plain truth.

What's your wife think on this one Jim? ( i bet she agrees)

Cookie said:

I know a plumber who had a heart attack, he didn't have insurance, while out and about on a job, he didn't feel right, and he took a Bayer ( in his work truck) drove himself to the ER, and in the ER he had a "widow-maker" heart attack and literally, flat-lined. They did CPR, brought back a heart beat and rushed him to the OR. They put a stent in, fixed him up, he was in the hospital for sometime. Today, he is on meds. He is doing fine. He is back to plumbing and being my best buddy.

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Except for the part about flat-lining, my experience was similar during my heart attack back in '99 at my hometown hospital where a cardiology group had just opened a new wing of its own and they (the cardiologists) were far more concerned about building a reputation than getting paid ... and one of them eventually told me they made enough from other people that they could have taken care of me for free and still remained in the black anyway. However, things are much different today. Two trips to a local ER back in October while I did not yet even have Medicaid did absolutely nothing for me, and the sympathetic doctor I was already seeing for cash said he could not order any tests unless/until I had some way to pay for them. Then in December I "refused" to go back to the first hospital's ER so I could be transported to the LSUHSC in Shreveport -- http://www.lsuhscshreveport.edu/AboutUs/AboutUs.aspx -- where "free care" is available ... but only to a certain point, I soon discovered. In order to qualify for their "free care" there at a teaching hospital, I was required to apply for Medicaid ... and now I am effectively limited to whatever Medicaid considers medically necessary (such as while on a gurney in the ER).

Cookie said:

Lee, call around and find a doctor near you, who accepts Medicaid ...

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I was given a list of them when I was first granted Medicaid, and I picked one that seemed really great at first ... but now she does not seem comfortable with prescribing all the BP meds I actually need and she wants me to go back to the LSUHSC doctors I already know will not prescribe them since that would amount to their admittance of not doing a thorough job in the first place.

Cookie said:

I wouldn't be paying for meds out of my own pocket, unless, I had to ...
Because of my husband's death, and the military, I am able to use Medicare ...

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I have no problem with paying out-of-pocket now that I am on SSDI and able to actually do so, and I am grateful to the State of Louisiana for giving me "food stamps" (a debit card) for a year while I was applying/appealing for SSDI ... and I believe I will qualify for Medicare after two years on SSDI.

Lee, don't give up whatever you do. I know it is hard but, honestly, you can and you will get passed all of this, and better days are ahead. The medical field sucks at times. My oncologist said, once to me, that everything about my lymphoma had been weird. THANKS! I felt like saying. Instead, I asked him what exactly he meant. I was so stunned that day, I didn't ask him what he meant until, the next visit. What he meant was I have perplexed the medical field. And, AND, if I was quiet about things, I probably would be shoved in some remote corner of the office and forgotten about. Mine is a hard case. They have to confer with other doctors in their own field. I actually... Lee, got to medical conferences. I never miss a one. I want to know what they are doing in this world I exist in, and want to overcome. So hang in there, and sometimes, Lee, you got to SPEAK UP to them. Loud. Not rude, not obnoxious, but let them know, you are there, you are listening, you are not going to give up. If they sense you are giving up, they will too. No doubt about that Lee, reason, they want to spend time, their time, only on those willing to go the distance. I go the distance. They know that. I TELL them, LEE, what drugs I want to be on, LOL... AND, they listen. Dig that.

You got to be your own advocate. AND, whatever you do, if anyone is giving you bad advice, if something doesn't feel right in what they are saying, take it to the bank that you are right, and it isn't. Listen to that little inner voice, that gut feeling. Go with it.

I will ask my buddy where he gets his meds at over the net, etc. He is on several different kinds.

Study up on what is ailing you. Know about all you can, whether it is your health, or the medical field and insurances because, this way, you will know when and if someone is blowing smoke in the wrong direction on you.

I am alive Lee. Because... like my dad used to say, " you are smarter than you look."

I know you want to be grateful, and so do I, but, you got to remember, you got to look out for number 1. They are very busy people, and I try seriously, to reduce the amount of time my doctors got to spend with me. I got a neurosurgeon, oncologist, urologist, military surgeon for other body parts than my brain, lol, a gny, and, I get second opinions.... and, I send things ( slides and blocks) out to NY for a second opinion on anything removed from my body. It could be a pimple or a bad node, it gets sent out. I do not tolerate mistakes from pathology anymore.

You can get the best medical care in the world, but, unless you are ontop of it all, it is worthless. People make mistakes. That one doctor who will not prescribe the same meds, you need another talk with her. And, the doctor who prescribes them. Remember Lee, the squeaky wheel get the grease.

Just squeak firmly, but, nicely. It is your life, and we only go around once.

And, I can squeak quite nicely, because I spent many years on Rituxan, which is made from mouse antibodies, lol.

I didn't plan on being knowledgeable about disease, the medical field, insurances, none of it. I was thrown into it headfirst in the deep end of the pool. It was either sink or swim. And, I swim.

Speak up. Honestly, those in charge expect it.

That really is a beautiful hospital. It reminds me of the first one I went to. I go to different hospitals. Lee, never ever, have all things done at the same one. It leaves too much room for mistakes. I get my Cat scans done at one imaging place in one hospital, I get my MRI's done at yet another place, my surgeries at the other place where my military surgeon is at, and, yet, the urologist is at another. My oncolgist is at yet another, and when I need chemo, I get it done in his office.

This way, different people are reading your files and profiles, and can catch mistakes. What I do is, each one is faxed results from the other. Each one knows what is going on. You get what I am saying? I coordinate them all. I get the most bang for my buck, and the best care.

Cookie said:

My oncologist said, once to me, that everything about my lymphoma had been weird ...
What he meant was I have perplexed the medical field ...
I TELL them, LEE, what drugs I want to be on, LOL... AND, they listen. Dig that.

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I only know you a little from being here on this forum, but I can easily believe that about you! Overall, however, it seems crucial to find a doctor or doctors who are willing to go beyond "usual-and-customary" when dealing with our more-challenging cases ... and that leads back to the beginning of this thread where doctors make decisions based upon factors not always related to the specifics of an actual case: People with a commanding presence and/or money or insurance typically get more from doctors than others of us, and that means doctors are making decisions in the seeming "best interests" of entities other than their patients.

Yes, and that is where you got to speak up, loud and clear! Firm, not rude, but, let them know you mean business. In 98, they diagnosed me with the wrong form of lymphoma. (how dare they, lol.) AND, then, put me on the wrong drugs for a total of 16 months, drugs not effective against the correct diagnosis. In 2000, I was told about the drugs I was on prior, that they, " just weren't the choice drugs." Choice drugs my ass, they were the WRONG drugs. They were not only ineffective, they were harsh drugs, made for men, not a woman, and, they had a hard time adjusting the doseage to drip due to it. I developed a heart problem due to one of the 4 drugs they dripped one after another, 5 days a week for that time. Now, I had to first of all understand, who and how this huge mistake was made. So, I requested my slides, my blocks, and had to see for myself. I took them to the university and used their high-powered microscopes. Okay... afterwards, I was able to give them some leeway. It was confusing as all hell. Reason being is, I have a double nucleus; which in Hodgkins disease, it is the Reed Sternberg cell, which is oddly, not a double nucleus, but, the cell structure presents itself as a "set of owl eyes." Which Non Hodgkins doesn't have. BUT, but, mine is also, nodular sclerosing which when stained a pink, looks like a cascade of a water fall, which inhibited them to closely, see, what they were looking at, was not the reed sternberg cell but, an odd double nucleus. One in a million. So, I was able to say, "okay, I get it." And, I let go of it. Which they appreciated. Treatment went on, but, now I wasn't a stage 2 no longer, but a 4. So, that depreciated my life span and made things so much rougher. That is when, I decided to get active and understand this problem which was trying to snuff out my life. Believe it or not, at first the medical field will strongly, object to you learning about it all, because now you can ask better questions, the right questions, and know, if they are right or not, or you should seek another medical person. I waste no time in seeking another, it is my life. They would do the same if wearing the same shoes.

So, you got to understand, they will judge you, by how interested you are in saving your life. You don't need to be commanding but, you got to know exactly what is going on. It is in your best interest Lee.

With mine also, I have indolent and intermidate grade.
Which requires different drugs to kill each one. Indolent is the one which I will live with for the rest of my life, it is very slow-growing, we measure its growth and chemos do not work against it because the teeny-tiny ones are not recognized as an invader; the intermidate grade is the one Jackie O had, and that is the bad one. For, it can turn quickly aggressive, and be fatal. BUT, chemos, especially, Rituxan is very effective against it.

I swear by the time I am old, I will pass the medical boards.