Boiler going into "lockout" mode

If your oil burner has a fuel valve with the solenoid, check for 115VAC on the coil wires; the more we go over this, the more it seems like the primary control is the culprit. If the motor turns the pump and blower, all else required for flame is fuel and ignition. If the ignitor is bad or the fuel solenoid is bad, the problem would probably not be so consistently repeatable as you have it.
Bear in mind that my advice is from a DIY homeowner with some experience on this stuff, but I don't want to make you buy a new controller if its not needed. Then again, "I" have a spare part for everything in my burner including the blower wheel, pump coupling and air tube with "nose cone", fuel filters, screen; everything other than the main casting . In the middle of the Winter, if my system went out, I just want to get it going again ASAP.

Good Luck,

Bob

Ok on the solenoid, the burner book mentions it and it shows what I believe I have in the picture circled in red. There's 2 wires (in romex tubing) coming out going into the primary control box, one is white, one is purple. If this is a solenoid, where would I put the multimeter leads to test?

I asked my husband to stop on the way home and get a primary control. I look at it this way, it's worth a shot to swap it after I've tried everything else I can reasonably and safely do and if it works, great! Problem solved. If not, one went before, this one will eventually go, so I'll have a spare and then call a pro

No go on the primary control being the issue. Replaced it with same exact one, wired the same way, same dumb behavior. At this point I call UNCLE and will call the oil company tomorrow.

watson524 said:

Ok on the solenoid, the burner book mentions it and it shows what I believe I have in the picture circled in red. There's 2 wires (in romex tubing) coming out going into the primary control box, one is white, one is purple. If this is a solenoid, where would I put the multimeter leads to test?

I asked my husband to stop on the way home and get a primary control. I look at it this way, it's worth a shot to swap it after I've tried everything else I can reasonably and safely do and if it works, great! Problem solved. If not, one went before, this one will eventually go, so I'll have a spare and then call a pro

Click to expand...

yes, that is the fuel solenoid. measuring the voltage to it is done at the insode of the junction box that the controller mounts on top of. It is a little tricky, because you have to clip your test leads to the two solenoid wires after memoving the controller flipping it upside down. when the solenoid is supposed to be energized, it should be receiving 115 volts AC between its 2 wires. Be careful there.
Hopefully you already installed the new controller and it fixed the problem?

Ok I don't know that I could measure the voltage because I'd have to have the wire nuts off where things are joined together which may cause other issues (loose connection?) But on the controller front... new one is in, issue persists. :-(

Good try though; I give yo credit for that

Refer to post # 4 before you wind up spending a whole lot of money replacing things that are not bad.

Nobody can argue with that, as it covers everything. The OP was determined to fix it. yeah, maybe it is as simple as a plugged filter. That normally causes some cavitation screaming though.

How would I check a plugged filter or strainer though? I know I have a filter right over next to the tanks before it goes into the line to come over to the boiler which looks like a car oil filter (screw on type I think).

watson524 said:

How would I check a plugged filter or strainer though? I know I have a filter right over next to the tanks before it goes into the line to come over to the boiler which looks like a car oil filter (screw on type I think).

Click to expand...

That's something where you can make a real mess with if you do something wrong. I haven't seen a setup with the filter up on top, as I am only a DIYer and have seen only my system and a few friends and family's setups, which all had the filter near floor level a few feet away from the burner and the tank fed the oil to the filter by gravity plus the suction from the pump. They have a shutoff valve just before the filter (tank side of filter). You really can't check the filter flow, but if you have a spare cartridge, you can replace it by shutting off the valve I mentioned; depending on what filter setup you have, draining the filter, cleaning the housing up from any sludge or other crap, replacing the cartridge and any gaskets (some are tiny). Big thing here is besides the potential for making a big mess and flooding your basement or wherever with fuel oil, is that after you do this, you need to bleed the air out of the oil line from the filter to the pump and prime the pump in the process. I think the best thing to do is get a tech there for your own safety and piece of mind, and watch what he or she does so if you really want to do this, you'll see how its done.
I have asked for DIY help in these great groups here too, and have received help that was very to the point. Lots of questions asked here are by DIYers that may not even be allowed to be done by some municipalities by the homeowner, but if a DIYer is determined to do it by themselves anyway, legal or not, they may as well get some help from a pro that will at least make the work get done as it should be done instead
of not. Good answers do not insure that it will be done right, but they probably offer the info needed to do so.

Get a tech there see what's done and take it as education.

Thanks for the added info. Our filter is right near the floor, actually sits on the floor in front of the one tank. I don't have a spare cartridge or anything so don't have any way to bleed the lines and know nothing about priming the pump so I think I've taken this as far as I can and have called the oil company. They're on a call now but will call me back and let me know when they can get up here. I just told them it'll have to be in the afternoon if it's today because of my conference call schedules for work and I want to stand there and explain everything I've already done and see what they do.

thanks for all the help and I'll post back once I get word on what's what.

cool. I look forward to hearing what is (was)wrong!

Well here's the info.... and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I do like the service guy and he's been out before for annual cleanings and understands my level of DIY is above a general homeowner but certainly not a pro so he explains things as he's going. I had it in lockout mode (didn't reset it) before he came. Told him everything I had done so far including the fact that I had removed the blue wire in the aquastat about 6 weeks ago to cold start (more on that in another post I am going to revive) but I plugged it back in to see what would happen and nothing changed.

Anyway, he looked at the eye, clean. Check resistance and all checked out ok. Replaced the nozzle. It was pretty dirty on the top again and I told him I had just cleaned it. He checked electrode settings and spacing was ok but he said the porcelain was really dirty. I told him I was going to clean those up but I didn't know if that was safe so we just wire brushed the ends and left it at that. Then he checked fuel pressure. It was reading 105. The front of the unit says 100 but he set it to 140. (This is where I got nervous). He said that there's addendums coming out now saying 160 - 200 is the setting to go with but he didn't want to go that high at all. When he first got there he said it's really odd that when it's "cold" it won't start without reset but a call fairly soon after it has been running fires it right up. When he pulled the nozzle, I asked him if it was possible that there's some tiny spec gunk that when it's heated up thins out but gets stickier as it cools and throws things off. He said yes it is possible, but he wasn't convinced and since it's a cheap part, let's just replace it. Ok for $5 I agree. He tested the primary control, said it isn't that since I just replaced it and it was still doing the same thing. Then he said, did you test the transformer? I said no, didn't know how. So he showed me the screw driver trick (with a WELL insulated handle). Spark across just fine. Screwdriver a 1/4" or so from each spring, even spark at both sides so he deemed the transformer to be ok. He tested for voltage to the aquastat and said that was fine. Set the low to 130 (which is what our boilermate is set to - a touch lower) and the high to 160 since he said we're not heating, don't need to have the high and low at 160 and 180. (He also said just pulling the blue wire isn't enough to cancel low - though my observation is that it is - so I'll post separately on that). He said the only other thing he can think of is that the aquastat is going fluky. He said let's leave it at the 130 - 150 and see how it does (it's only cooled to about 150 now and nothing has called for it). He said if it works ok, then turn it back up to the 160/180 and see how that does. If it works, he suspects the fuel pressure and/or nozzle and electrode cleaning was the issue. He said if it doesn't work, then he suspects the aquastat is on the way out. He said it's not a cheap part (I know it was $277 installed when I got a price to go to the one that doesn't have the low setting from my HVAC guys) but he said, clearly you have enough skills where I'd just get one, make a diagram and swap it out of the same kind. He said that that's what they'd do next and why pay for the service call. So that's where I'm at. So far nothing has called and I'm letting it cool off. In order not to have to wait until tonite, I may just turn up the temp control on the boilermate and see what's what.

So that's where I stand.... I'm sort of hoping it wasn't the nozzle and electrode thing or I'll feel silly but if it was the fuel pressure, I don't have the knowledge or tools to deal with that so I'd have had to call them anyway.

My opinion, and you know what opinions are worth: every body has one just like..................yadda yadda yadda: If the aquastat is bad, it would not give the signal (power) to the primary control to even get the motor spinning, but you said it did spin, but the flame "woosh" never happened? I do not know how your boiler and burner is wired, but I do know how mine is, and its pretty much what I have been going by. I have the Honeywell 7184 primary controller on mine.

Yep I know. I know of lot of folks with the wrong end of the opinions I do appreciate your's though.

I ASSUME the noise I'm hearing right down there at the motor is the spinning. I can't open it up and look of course but it's something right there where the pump and fins are so... I have the Honeywell L8124A for the aquastat and the 8184G 4009 primary controller.

My husband talked to his friend at work who's father is a master plumber and he used to work with him a lot and he said it sounds like it's electrical to him but without being here obviously....

The aquastat has the low wire back in with settings of 130/150. An hour or so I went down and the boiler temp was about 10 - 15 above 130 so it hadnt' kicked on. I went down now and it is NOT in reset mode but the temp is reading about 123 SO.... it either kicked on and ran (I'm in my office two floors up) and worked and didn't reset itself OR it just hasn't kicked on yet. Either way, when my husband gets home and takes a shower, I'll go watch the thing again.

well no luck. it came on while we were standing there discussing the day's events and no go. came on on low limit call, didn't fire. hit reset (had to hit is twice) fired right up. ran short cycle to get above low limit. after a minute, we turned up temp control on boilermate, it fired right up. i guess we'll give the aquastat a try...

our aquastat is a honeywell L8124A 1155 but I'm only seeing 1007 or 1015 on honeywell's website. does anyone know what the replacement for the 1155 is? (i'm also seeing the 1007 and 1015 at $416 MSRP... yikes!) on honeywell's website, the 1007 has a 3" insertion well vs the 1015 with a 3" insertion well and ground screw and the insulation depth on the 1007 is 1.5" vs 3" on the 1015. no idea what that is or what i would need to measure on the existing.

I found your aquastat at honeywells site which show it as a triple acting aquastat. I also did a google search for "honewell aquastat" and found yours (I think) at several sites that have it for sale at less than $200. Ask Terry here if he can get it for you, although I DO NOT think it is your problem if you do indeed heat the motor spinning just before it locks out. If the aquastat is bad, I firmly believe that the primary controller would get no power to TRY to fire up the burner and therefore not even care that the cad cell saw no flame. Honeywell's web site has the data sheet for your aquastat you can download: http://customer.honeywell.com/honeywell/ProductInfo.aspx/L8124A1015 Good luck

yep, that's basically ours except that has 1015 vs the 1155 on ours. it's a triple, yes. i found it somewhere else for way less than that price on the honeywell website so i feel a bit better. at this point the oil guy is saying that's what he'd replace next so i think i'm kind of stuck. i agree with your logic (from what i'm understanding of how things work) but if they're just going to replace that anyway.....

the motor spinning... maybe i'm not getting it. it's like a light buzzing noise right down by the pump/motor area. that's the best way i can describe it.

my other thought is that even though the CAD cell is reading ok as far as resistance, that's probably a heck of a lot cheaper and maybe that's something i should replace first. but i don't know if that's just shooting in the dark.

Again, the motor spinning thing: if you shut off the power to the burner and flip up the transformer like you saw the tech do, you will see the blower wheel right below the transformer opening area. If you mark it with a black felt tip marker and close it all back up and turn the power on, you will be able to see if the wheel is in the same position or not after the next lock out cycle. the more this discussion goes on, the more I doubt the motor is actually turning for one reason or another at the time it fails. Maybe what you hear is not the burner motor, because when it turns the blower wheel it makes a fan noise you really don't have to listen hard for. Do you have a hot water storage tank that is fed from a circulator pump? If you have one of those indirect hot water heater tanks like I do, when the thermostat in the tank calls for heat, it actually causes the circulator to come on, but not if the triple acting thermostat sees that the water temp in the boiler itself is below the low setting. I don't know what's going on. Not to knock the tech that was there, but I don't think he sounds like a top notch guy.
Where I live, there are so many bad trades people, it makes the good techs (and there are a bunch of them) get a bad rep too. I guess that's the main reason I became such a DIYer. I would be happy to spend my money on a good tradesman that instilled confidence in me. In all the years I've been in my house, I had only 2 come in that I was so pleased with that would definitley have them back. I never had a plumber come in, so I can't judge any. the regulars here certainly seem to know their stuff.
Motor turns freely? the oil pump in the burner is driven by the motor through that plastic tubing looking thing; if the pump is too hard to turn, the plastic coupling breaks or stips out. I would have thought that the guy coming to your house would have fixed it right away, especially if he saw it happen once.

AH HA!! Now why the heck couldn't I think of that? I just marked 3 fins on the the blower wheel. Boiler temp was at 125 (I have it as cold start now). We do have a boilermate indirect storage tank. So I made the marks, closed the transformer back up and turned power back on. Then we turned up the temp on the boilermate to force a call. Argo panel lit up on that zone, circulator started running, power venter came on, boiler did NOT fire and went into lockout... and guess what, when I opened the transformer, my 3 marks have not moved!! I'm sort of happy about this (I think). Though I'm not sure what it means. Does this rule out the aquastat? I THINK it does since I don't believe the aquastat has squat to do with turning the pump and motor but I may be wrong. Your question about the motor turning freely, I can move it with my fingers, yes. It doesn't go whizzing around loosely but i can push it both ways. I'm not quite clear on where this plastic coupling is though. Down in the transformer by the fan blades? I can take pictures if that might help. I confirmed by looking at the marks that when I hit reset and it fires, the motor has in fact moved.

Now what's weird is that if running from reset, it runs, but if it's on its own, it doesn't. Does that mean anything now? This is sort of an interesting puzzle for me and I'm learning a lot. I definitely appreciate you sticking with it to point me down the right path.

And one question on your comment "If you have one of those indirect hot water heater tanks like I do, when the thermostat in the tank calls for heat, it actually causes the circulator to come on, but not if the triple acting thermostat sees that the water temp in the boiler itself is below the low setting."

Do you mean that if the aquastat has the water temp below the low setting, it'll warm up to at least low temp before it lets the circulator pump come on for the indirect zone? I can't say as I've ever noticed that, I think our circulator runs regardless of boiler temp. And for the past 6 weeks I've been running it as cold start so the boiler is always coming on but the circulator runs immediately on the call too