Air injection (Micronizer) Vs air injection at the head.

LLigetfa · Apr 17, 2011

WellWaterProducts said:
Any thought to the compressor capacity required to make this strategy viable?

I haven't worked out the finer details yet but given the small orifice on the Waterite hose barb, I cannot imagine that it would need a lot of CFMs. The micronizer would still have to suck just as before, just that the upper range of pressure/flow would be raised.

If I could find a small quiet running compressor, I would consider slaving it to the pump power so that it runs and stops when the pump does. That way, I could go tankless without a regulator. If I use a conventional air compressor with a pressure switch, I would dial in the regulator for the desired pressure since my compressor shuts off at 100 PSI.

Even if I were to inject ten times as much air as the micronizer would suck on its own, the air volume control on the precipitation tank will just vent it off. If the tank didn't get purged, the oxygen level would reduce while the rising CO2 and H2S levels make up the bulk of the air. I figure the CO2 and whatever H2S collects in the tank should be purged. I have my tank vented to the sump pit which in turn is power vented to the outside.

WellWaterProducts · Apr 18, 2011

I've used air pumps with reasonable success http://www.air-pump.com/

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

LLigetfa · Apr 18, 2011

WellWaterProducts said:
I've used air pumps with reasonable success http://www.air-pump.com/

Thanks for the link. Are there any dB specs for noise level?

Royerm · Apr 18, 2011

LLigetfa said:
Thanks for the link. Would you PM me a price for the 230 volt AP2? Are there any dB specs for noise level?

I found info that said 50 Db

LLigetfa · Apr 18, 2011

50 dB is what your average fridge puts out and is quieter than some dishwashers. Given that it would be down in my crawlspace, 50 dB would be quite acceptable.

I had strapped the in-coming poly line and Banjo pre-filter to the floor joists deliberately so that I could hear when the pump is running. Actually...to be more precise, I can hear the moving water. I cannot actually hear if the pump down the well is running if it isn't moving water. If I slave the compressor to the same pressure switch as the pump, I would know when the pump is energized even if it wasn't moving water.

WellWaterProducts · Apr 18, 2011

The sound isn't too bad at all. As a rule, I have anchored them to concrete walls to minimize noise.

LLigetfa · Apr 18, 2011

I checked out the website and the Aer-Max system looks interesting. I'm thinking that there is probably some sort of injector that blends the air into the water stream to maximize aeration. I doubt they simply pump air above the water. I'm hoping to do the same thing with my micronizer by opening up the venturi to allow more GPM through.

My problem is that my Goulds 10GS05 ingested too much sand and wore the impellers so it cannot produce the needed GPM through the micronizer venturi for a thorough shakeup of the media bed during backwash. I've thought of opening up the pump to rebuild it but given that it's more than 12 years old, I'm thinking to just limp by until I have to replace it. None the less, a CSV should help to buy a little more time.

wascalwabbitt · Nov 12, 2019

LLigetfa said:
I checked out the website and the Aer-Max system looks interesting. I'm thinking that there is probably some sort of injector that blends the air into the water stream to maximize aeration. I doubt they simply pump air above the water. I'm hoping to do the same thing with my micronizer by opening up the venturi to allow more GPM through.

LL,
Did you end up adding an air pump? The lady at Air Pump told me its best if the air and water is going in the top of the retention tank. What is your experience.
wascal

LLigetfa · Nov 12, 2019

I could not find a reasonably priced 240V oil-less air pump in Canada. My plan back then was to provide air under pressure to the micronizer. Air introduced as micro-bubbles via a micronizer is superior to just having a water curtain dropping through an air pocket.

Right now I have a bit of both. The secondary hybrid contact tank has a standpipe that feeds the inlet stream to the top of the tank where it contacts the air pocket. I don't know how much oxygen is left in that air pocket after the micro-bubbles separate from the water in the first HP tank.

wascalwabbitt · Nov 12, 2019

LLigetfa said:
I could not find a reasonably priced 240V oil-less air pump in Canada. My plan back then was to provide air under pressure to the micronizer. Air introduced as micro-bubbles via a micronizer is superior to just having a water curtain dropping through an air pocket.

Right now I have a bit of both. The secondary hybrid contact tank has a standpipe that feeds the inlet stream to the top of the tank where it contacts the air pocket. I don't know how much oxygen is left in that air pocket after the micro-bubbles separate from the water in the first HP tank.

LL,
I have seen your photos
well -- pump -- 100 mesh screen -- two parallel micronizers --HP tank acting as pressure tank -- reworked AVC retention tank -- iron filter -- softener -- to house

By putting the mixing/hp tank first in line and using it as your 'bladderless' pressure tank HAS this caused the pump to cycle a lot more often? (as compared to using a bladder pressure tank)

One person who tried that said "There's simply not enough air in this thing for that to be feasible." What is your experience?

LLigetfa · Nov 12, 2019

wascalwabbitt said:
LL,
I have seen your photos
well -- pump -- 100 mesh screen -- two parallel micronizers --HP tank acting as pressure tank -- reworked AVC retention tank -- iron filter -- softener -- to house

By putting the mixing/hp tank first in line and using it as your 'bladderless' pressure tank HAS this caused the pump to cycle a lot more often? (as compared to using a bladder pressure tank)

One person who tried that said "There's simply not enough air in this thing for that to be feasible." What is your experience?

First off, not all HP tanks are created equal. The HP-7 I have is what some might call "supercharged" as the air volume is "on par" with diaphragm tanks so the HP tank is essentially empty when the pump kicks on. That however, has caused me problems wherein the micronizer rate limits the pump GPM but the draw can be greater causing the air to move forward. That is the reason I added the second modified HP tank. Air that moves forward is captured in the second tank were the low watermark is a foot above the outlet. As a result, the pressure would have to drop considerably more for any air from the second tank moving forward into the iron filter and beyond.

The second modified HP tank does have air in it and as such adds to the drawdown capacity to reduce pump cycling. Also, the micronizer rate limiting has the effect of slowing the fill rate which stretches the pump run time. In some uses, the refill rate almost matches the draw rate due to how a pump runs on a curve, so the pump might not reach cutoff until the draw ends.

Note that I am not running parallel micronizers at this time. One micronizer is in the circuit and the other one is isolated by valves. The option however is there should I want/need more aeration.

captv564 · Jan 4, 2020

LLigetfa said:
First off, not all HP tanks are created equal. The HP-7 I have is what some might call "supercharged" as the air volume is "on par" with diaphragm tanks so the HP tank is essentially empty when the pump kicks on. That however, has caused me problems wherein the micronizer rate limits the pump GPM but the draw can be greater causing the air to move forward. That is the reason I added the second modified HP tank. Air that moves forward is captured in the second tank were the low watermark is a foot above the outlet. As a result, the pressure would have to drop considerably more for any air from the second tank moving forward into the iron filter and beyond.

The second modified HP tank does have air in it and as such adds to the drawdown capacity to reduce pump cycling. Also, the micronizer rate limiting has the effect of slowing the fill rate which stretches the pump run time. In some uses, the refill rate almost matches the draw rate due to how a pump runs on a curve, so the pump might not reach cutoff until the draw ends.

Note that I am not running parallel micronizers at this time. One micronizer is in the circuit and the other one is isolated by valves. The option however is there should I want/need more aeration.

LL,
I have a HP tank with a micronizer and am considering a parallel micronizer to increase GPM downstream. I have a high flow tub faucet that will draw faster than the single micronizer can supply. Why aren't you operating the micronizers at the same time to increase GPM downstream? Is there not enough flow from your pump to operate both at once? Two venturies will supply more air and water it would seem... Thanks.

LLigetfa · Jan 4, 2020

captv564 said:
LL,
Why aren't you operating the micronizers at the same time to increase GPM downstream? Is there not enough flow from your pump to operate both at once? Two venturies will supply more air and water it would seem... Thanks.

I have a sediment problem with the well therefore I have to limit the GPM of draw. If I draw from the well too fast, it motivates the sediment.

LLigetfa · Jan 4, 2020

captv564 said:
Two venturies will supply more air and water it would seem...

Maybe, maybe not. If the micronizer has an adjustable bypass as does the Waterite brand, opening the bypass allows more water than what goes through the venturi. It depends on what GPM the pump can produce as to whether increasing the bypass will still draw enough air.
You might be better off using a different brand of micronizer. My dealer tells me the Mazzei venturi allows more water through and draws more air.

captv564 · Feb 17, 2020

LLigetfa said:
Maybe, maybe not. If the micronizer has an adjustable bypass as does the Waterite brand, opening the bypass allows more water than what goes through the venturi. It depends on what GPM the pump can produce as to whether increasing the bypass will still draw enough air.
You might be better off using a different brand of micronizer. My dealer tells me the Mazzei venturi allows more water through and draws more air.

I had a Mazzei venturi on my fish tank protein skimmer and it did put out a lot of bubbles. I did solve my problem without having to purchase another venturi though. I had a cycle stop valve installed prior to the micronizer and it seems the back pressure from the micronizer was causing the CSV to restrict flow too early. I changed the order so now it is pump, micronizer, CSV, HP tank, Iron filter, water softener and everything is working great. I have the micronizer bypass at 60% closed. Plenty of flow to keep up with the tub and the micronizer is pumping in enough air to keep the HP tank filled properly.

Air injection (Micronizer) Vs air injection at the head.

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