Which flange?

Hi everyone.

Since I'm just about done with my tiling, I really have to make a decision about which toilet flange I'm going to install. I originally bought an ABS plastic flange because I'm tired of pulling toilets only to discover a rusted metal flange. Then I began to worry that the bolts might work through the plastic, especially if there was any movement. So I went out and bought a "stainless" flange. Now I understand that the "stainless" is not really stainless but merely plated steel and that it too will rust out eventually. So I'm dithering about which one to install.

In case it makes a difference, my closet bend is a 3" vent el, which I had to install for lack of height (I replaced a lead bend coming out of a cast-iron main stack, using a rubber donut and a short length of 3" ABS pipe). The all-ABS flange is a 3" spigot that fits into the bell of the vent el. The "stainless" flange is a 3" outside fitter, and I will have to add a few inches of 3" ABS pipe to connect it to the bell, as well as cut off about 3/4" of the plastic from the bottom of the flange so it will seat flush with the floor. What would you do?

What made you think the bolts would work their way through the plastic?

Go with the metal ring flange. they sit lower on the floor so the wax ring doesn't all squeeze out.

A product which says stainless steel should be just that...NOT plated. What brand are you looking at that you think is plated??

Thanks, guys, for your replies. They're both Oatey flanges. I don't know that the stainless one isn't 100% stainless—but the metal doesn't look like anything else I own that is stainless, e.g., my kitchen sink. And I read a posting somewhere on here that they do rust out. Anyone else had that happen? As for the plastic, I also don't know that they wear through (although again, I read a posting somewhere that they crack)—I just don't have a lot of confidence in plastic (where movement is involved). The thickness issue is a good point—the plastic's about an eight of an inch thicker than the stainless (though the actual track the bolts slide in is quite thin). I'll have to check the underneath of my new toilet (Porcher) to see what the clearance is. It'd be ironic if I used the plastic and it ended up being too tall, as I originally intended to seat it on the subfloor and tile around (as I've done on 3 previous remodels, with no problems), but everyone says you're supposed to seat it on the finished floor surface.

That's because they polish the crap out of your kitchen sink. Nobody cares what the flange looks like. No, stainless flanges don't rust out. The old painted steel flanges rusted out. Oatly makes good stuff.

Okay, so I'm going to go with the stainless flange. Thanks, Tom, for your reassurance.
Now I've got another question. I've always seated toilets using plumber's putty on the bottom of the bowl. But I never see any reference to this method nowadays. Is it still a good way to do it? Or does everybody just use plastic shims and caulk? (I still caulk over the plumber's putty.) Is the caulk supposed to hold the shims in place?

First, a couple of basics. The flange should be on top of the finished floor. Toilets are sealed to the drain at the flange with either a wax ring (no plastic horn or funnel) or with a waxless product. Put the flange bolts in place and use a couple of extra nuts to hold them vertical and in place. Don't worry, there's plenty of space to do this. Put the wax ring on the flange. If using the waxless, disregard the installation instructions, and put the product on the toilet's horn. Now, lower the toilet onto the flange using the flange bolts as a guide to keep the toilet vertical. Use you body weight to compress the wax ring. The toilet should touch the floor all the way around. Tighten the flange with the hardware provided with the toilet. Tight, but not superman torqued. There is no seal under the toilet's skirting, but you should use a latex caulk around the base of the toilet. Apply a thin bead around the base and smooth it out with a wet finger. Keep a cup of water and a rag handy to clean the excess from your finger and keep it wet. Don't use too much caulk. The purpose of the caulk is to prevent water from mopping the floor, spilled water, and men and boys with poor aim, are the primary reasons for the caulking. Plumber's putty is a product used to set sink and tub drains, it is never, ever, used under or around a toilet.

Thanks, Gary. I don't know where I got that from (using plumbers putty), but I've been doing it that way for years (I have several rentals). Also under sink pedestals. Mostly because the floors tend to be a little uneven — I generally use small-format tiles in bathrooms, and it's difficult to get them perfectly level. After cutting off the squeeze out, I then caulk around the fixture.

Anyway, I'm committed now to my stainless steel flange. I cut 5/8" off the bottom so it meets the closet bend, and I drilled holes in my tiles to set the screws (off now to the hardware store for some 2" #12 stainless steel screws). This is my home bathroom, so I want to do it right. The original lasted 80 years — I'll be happy if my reno lasts half as long (altho I won't be here to see it!)

Do you recommend using the waxless seal over the plain wax? I read somewhere here that it's not recommended for a tight 90° closet bend like mine (which is actually a vent el).

A vent bend, as in not even a medium bend?
I would just use the wax seal for this.
I don't set bowls with putty, there are plumbers that do.
If needed, I shim the bowl, then use a clear poly seam seal caulking.

Terry said:

A vent bend, as in not even a medium bend?

Click to expand...

Sadly, yes. The top of my old, lead bend cleared the bottom of my subfloor by about half an inch, so anything bigger would have entailed cutting into my cast iron stack to add a new tee. I've actually had this same situation in a couple of my rentals, and it's never been a problem. I'll use the plain wax seal.
Thanks, Terry!

If the elbow is even with the floor, the way it appears to be, where are you going to get the "length" to install a piece of pipe and slide the flange over it? It appears that you do things the way they "work", not the "right" way.

The piece of 3" ABS I use to connect the flange to the elbow will be 2-1/2" long — 1-1/2" into the bell of the elbow and 1" into the flange (which I had to reduce in length). I realize that this is not optimum, but the only alternatives, as far as I know, are to build up the floor of the bathroom (it's already higher than the adjoining rooms) or lower the cast-iron tee on the main stack (it's bell and spigot, and supports two more stories of cast iron above). Or, I suppose, I could try to find someone who can fashion a new lead closet bend.

Obviously, if I have problems with the toilet flushing, I will have to consider cutting into the cast iron, but as I said, the same situation exists in two of my rentals, with no problems over many years. In all three situations, the horizontal flow of waste is only about a foot, i.e., the distance from the flange to the stack.