Kohler Persuade Review, pictures and comments

You will need to shim, and then caulk.
I like clear PolySeamSeal

Should I shim the L-brackets or the actual toilet? How they designed the L-bracket, the piece that attaches to the actual toilet moves up and down no matter what, but won't secure like a traditional bolt and nut. I'm a bit perplexed.
Thanks for all the help!
Eric

That's right, it is a pretty loose connection there.
I would shim the toilet so it quits rocking, and then caulk.
Don't worry bout getting the bolts real tight.

It that fails you can then use some PL-400 construction adhesive that is more commonly used for gluing decks and sub floors down.
The only problem is that if you ever need to remove the toilet you will have to tear the house down around it.... (joke, don't do it)

ballvalve said:

I have a obscure and "artistic" Kohler faucet that leaked at the packing a bit. After 12 years, rang them up, got a guy on the first ring WITHOUT an Indian accent, who explained in great mechanical detail the procedure, then sent the part fed ex for free.

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You were extremely lucky!
Buy Powerball Tickets and stand on open hilltops in a thunderstorm...
You will obviously do well in either case.

Waiting 3 weeks is not at all unusual.

Well, its time for me to chime in now. After being frustrated with this toilet for two years, I just finished replacing the two persuades with toto drake II after extensive research on this forum.

The reason is pretty simple, yours truely typically build up a nice size monument while doing "the business". And from day 1 of the install, I realized that the flush on the persuade was not enough. This was during test flushes, and even before I actually used it.

So, as I am researching for toilets for my new house, I decided to buy two extra to replace these. And now, all I can say is that the difference is night and day. It used to take two flushes to clean out the toilet, now it takes one clean flush. Also, I realized another problem with the persuade is that the water pool is too small for the flush. Maybe if the water pool was larger, it wouldn't have so much problems.

Anyways, I come from Asia where Toto is used extensively and a pretty familiar brand. I never had toilet problems until I moved stateside. I'm just now going back to what I'm most familiar with. And I learned a lesson NOT to buy toilets for the looks.

Toto Aquia II vs Kohler Persuade

Somebody help me! I am renovating my house and originally wanted 4 Toto Aquia II toilets as I like their design, dual flush and easy cleaning around the base - no pee traps! My distributor said that he heard of four that had leaked and also that the flush was insufficient. He is honest and I trust him. I went online and found mixed reviews, including some of leakage and insufficient flushing. I am now ordering 4 Kohler Persuade toilets but online I found reviews of difficult to obtain, pricey parts as well as insufficient flushing, so now don't know what to do. My friend has a Toto Aquia, but has only had it for a year - she loves it. I am confused.

The TOTO Aquia is Superior to the Persuade.

I've sold 300 of the Toto Aquia toilets, with less then 1% returns.
If you read some of the previous posts, you will see comments about the Persuade.

jjustice said:

My distributor said that he heard of four that had leaked and also that the flush was insufficient. He is honest and I trust him. I went online and found mixed reviews, including some of leakage and insufficient flushing.

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Somehow I doubt he is a Toto distributor... You might be talking to a Kohler distributor that is selling you his "As Good As A Toto"

jjustice said:

My friend has a Toto Aquia, but has only had it for a year - she loves it. I am confused.

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I believe friends...

still confused

I am still confused. I have heard good things about Toto, but have also heard about leaks from the Aquia II. Is this from faulty design or poor installation? And why are some people so happy with it while others report leaks? Do just SOME of the toilets leak? And how do I get one that doesn't? I need FOUR new toilets and I do not want to be having four leaky ones! You are right, the distributor is not an authorized Toto distributor although he can get the product. But he is a good distributor (Fergusons) with a good reputation. I am used to the small water hole, having lived abroad for ten years. That does not worry me so much. But the leakiness sure does worry me. What can you tell me about leaks with the Aquia II?

Let me repeat this.

I have sold 300 of the TOTO Aquia toilets. They are nearly perfect as far as I can tell. Less then 1% returns, which for construction, you could argue that it's about as perfect as you're ever going to get.
When there has been an installation error, we've been able to go to the homeowners location and readjust the tank bolts and everyting will be fine.
We tell our customers, that since the black rubber seal between tank and bowl is of firmer rubber then the sponge rubber gaskets that other toilets use, that it requires slowing down just a bit, and using a screwdriver back and forth on both sides, tightening the tank to the bowl much like you would for the torquing of the bolts when reinstalling a head to a motor engine. You can't just crank one side of the tank down too far pulling it off center and expect a good result. Slow down and tighten evenly.
And that's why out of 300 toilets sold, there were 297 that worked perfectly.
The homeowners are doing a better job than the plumbers by the way. They tend to read the instructions and will listen to advice. If they want to have their own plumber do the installation, we will talk that plumber through the installation for them. Most of the time, their plumber is too impatient though. We can take the same toilet, (and we have) and install it perfectly. It's pretty sad when plumbers can only do a few things right.
But then, it opens up complete markets for people that have brains.

Thank you for the input. I am a 60 year old female living alone who just bought a house and I am gutting the bathrooms and the kitchen. I will try and talk to the builder and/or plumber about the installation factor. I just hope they listen.

I've installed the Persuade too, it's no piece of cake to install either.



It's pretty similar to the Aquia installation.
Here is the Persuade installation below.

I haven't heard about any leaks with the Persuade though.

Nobody buys them, that's why.
The tank goes on just like the Aquia. I've installed one Persuade in the Seattle area, and guess what? No leak.
And I've sold 300 Aquia toilets. And guess what? I had a few that other people installed that leaked, that I was able to fix by retightening the bolts in the tank.

If a homeowner has no problems installing them, then you would think a plumber could do it too.

But hey, since we're one for one on the persuade, go ahead. They are both dual flush toilets, they both use a floor mounting system, and they both use a similar method for attaching the tank.
You may be over thinking this.
The biggest difference is the flush between the two, but then checking that, that seems pretty close too.
The bowl on the Persuade that needs a 12" rough at the minimum, no floor mold, and the supply can't be behind the bowl.

No floor mold. What were they thinking? Why not have someone park a car six inches away from your drivers door too?


Looking inside the Persuade tank.



Looking inside the Aquia tank. Wow! what a big difference.
Does one tank look harder to install? Not to me.

The supply line for the Kohler is a bit strange though going through a hole in the side of the bowl.
The location of the water shutoff for the Kohler has less margin for error.

ANY toilet can leak if it is not installed properly. MOST toilets will leak if they do not sit flat on the floor without rocking (if it does, it needs to be shimmed properly during installation before you mush down the wax ring). Installed properly, you'll have a much lower chance of a leak on a Toto than most other toilets as their QA/QC and consistency in manufacturing is generally better than the competition.

What are the flush ratings for both and what does that mean exactly - how strong the flush is?

There is a group that compares toilets. They get rated by how much plastic wrapped goo they can flush. Plastic wrapped goo (sort of like a sausage or hot dog) isn't the same as the 'real' stuff. Some manufactuers have figured out how to make their toilet look fantastic in this test, but they fail in the real world with the real thing, either by not cleaning the bowl (not part of the test), or just working right. On that test, the designer has basically said anything over 500g is fine. Some will hit nearly 1000g. I've never seen a stool that was anywhere near that heavy (1000g if you related it to sticks of butter would be about 10 end-to-end). Some of those tested only manage 200-300g, and are generally real dogs, but hit 500 or more, and it should work, but more doesn't necessarily mean it is truely better.

Hi, all. Thank you for the informative thread you have going here.

I'm having an issue and it's making me want to tear my hair out! I have a Kohler Persuade on all three floors of my 2-year-old house. My upstairs Persuade has developed a slow leak into the bowl, and I can't figure out why. My first guess was the middle flapper (?) mechanism with the dual-flush system, so I swapped it with my middle floor Persuade to see if that would fix it, and it doesn't! I don't know what else can be causing the water to slowly leak into the bowl from the tank.

I've left this toilet turned off now, because of it (tank level drops an inch maybe every 10 minutes).

Please, I'm at my wits' end!

Has anyone tried to get a manometer on these things? I just installed 3 persuades in a complete remodel and cannot for the life of me get even so much as a bubble. Almost ready to pull all fixtures and do another pressure test. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this as I have never installed these til now.
thanks