I am installing a shower faucet (moen L2353). The plaster ground was not installed behind the shower wall and there is limited access. How can I attach the cover without that plastic piece installed properly. The hole through the shower wall is approx. 3 inches.
Shower faucet without plaster ground
- Thread starter Bobbiada
- Start date
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
The plaster guard is not designed to stay on the rough-in valve...so it should not have any impact on installing the trim. BUT, if the hole through the wall was not at least as big as the plaster guard, there may be no way to get to the holes (which are in the valve, not the plaster guard) to actually attach it. the plaster guard is there to help position the valve properly in the wall and to ensure the hole is big enough and in the right place so you CAN install the trim.
The only time the plaster guard is designed to stay in place is to help stiffen things up when you have a thin-wall installation (like a thin fiberglass shower surround). And even then, if the hole was sized and positioned properly, it would not affect the ability of the trim to be installed.
You may need to try to cut or trim the tile on the wall so that the screw holes are uncovered.
The only time the plaster guard is designed to stay in place is to help stiffen things up when you have a thin-wall installation (like a thin fiberglass shower surround). And even then, if the hole was sized and positioned properly, it would not affect the ability of the trim to be installed.
You may need to try to cut or trim the tile on the wall so that the screw holes are uncovered.
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guyinsb
New Member
Moen plaster guard
The plaster guard does indeed serve a use. There is a gasket on the back of the circular chrome trim which needs to butt up against something firm
to create a good seal. Without the firm fit, the gasket will sort of work, but at some point in the future (22 years for one of my Moen valves),
the gasket comes loose from the trim, and water leaks behind the valve (down to the ceiling in the room below, in my case!).
I jerry-rigged a plaster guard substitute out of a circular piece of stiff plastic; am installing this afternoon.
The plaster guard does indeed serve a use. There is a gasket on the back of the circular chrome trim which needs to butt up against something firm
to create a good seal. Without the firm fit, the gasket will sort of work, but at some point in the future (22 years for one of my Moen valves),
the gasket comes loose from the trim, and water leaks behind the valve (down to the ceiling in the room below, in my case!).
I jerry-rigged a plaster guard substitute out of a circular piece of stiff plastic; am installing this afternoon.
hj
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quote; The plaster guard does indeed serve a use. There is a gasket on the back of the circular chrome trim which needs to butt up against something firm
to create a good seal.
EVERY plaster ground specifies that it is removed before installing the trim, with one exception. When you have a fiberglass tub/shower wall, SOMETIMES the opening in the wall can be made undersized, then the plaster ground it placed behind the wall and the trim is installed clamping the wall between the ground and the trim. OTHERWISE, the wall is what the "rubber gasket" presses against. Th plaster ground is supposed to be installed "flush" with the finished wall. If the plaster ground had been installed "behind" the shower wall the valve would probably be too deep to install the trim without an extension kit.
to create a good seal.
EVERY plaster ground specifies that it is removed before installing the trim, with one exception. When you have a fiberglass tub/shower wall, SOMETIMES the opening in the wall can be made undersized, then the plaster ground it placed behind the wall and the trim is installed clamping the wall between the ground and the trim. OTHERWISE, the wall is what the "rubber gasket" presses against. Th plaster ground is supposed to be installed "flush" with the finished wall. If the plaster ground had been installed "behind" the shower wall the valve would probably be too deep to install the trim without an extension kit.
Doing it flush means it better be perfect.
We view as a plus an minus to work with. You want it somewhere in the middle for most of us to make sure the tile doesn't cause us fits later.
We view as a plus an minus to work with. You want it somewhere in the middle for most of us to make sure the tile doesn't cause us fits later.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
To get the trim to fit, the depth of the valve must be between the min/max marks or specs for that valve body...but, you may not like the way it looks at one extreme or the other. All the min/max values mean is that the trim will fit. Aesthetics may dictate it to be in a certain place, and that value is for the FINISHED wall, so best to mock it up and decide where you LIKE it to be, and confirm it's somewhere between the min/max. Sometimes, you can find extensions if it's too far recessed, but there's nothing you can do easily if it's sticking too far out.
Agreed. We were discussing this very possibility while finding the correct placement of the valve. We ended up using (2) 3/4" pieces of 1x's to simulate the 1/2" kerdi board, 3/8" subway tile, + 1/8" for thinset and recessed the ground about 1/8". We connected the trim cover plate over the 1x's to the valve to make sure the screws were long enough. Also checked for level and plumb.
Before I cover the valve side wall with Kerdi board, do our connections to the new valve look okay (photo with colored PEX) ? I'm also including a photo of the old valve the plumber installed 15 years ago (white PEX). Hopefully, we did a little better of a job. We did test everything for leaks with a shower test plug, and also checked the cold and hot sides independently using the integral stops. Thanks for letting me know.
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Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
One of the benefits of using pex is that it bends quite easily. ON 1/2" stuff, the minimum bend radius is fairly small, and bend supports work quite well to do them. Personally, I'd have avoided those two 90-degree bends on the cold side, and made that a single run...less chances of any leaks, and less dynamic pressure loss. Each fitting somewhat negates the benefits of pex, because they decrease the flow volume and the friction decreases the pressure when flowing (not static). Being on the cold side, not as big of a deal since you'll be mostly using hot.
Since pex is not rigid, make sure that the valve is well anchored so it won't move in/out, or rotate.
Since pex is not rigid, make sure that the valve is well anchored so it won't move in/out, or rotate.
Jeff H Young
In the Trades
no need to have plaster guard , with fiberglass tub enclosure it allows the plumber to leave the valve loose and after tub is set trimscrews hold it tight it works , and usually works real good . but its work to not strap a valve. I prefer the guard but bust it out on finish if its tiled
Here's how the trim kit looks installed. I'm pretty happy with how it looks and the distance of the handle from the escutcheon plate. Why doesn't Moen include the 7/64ths Allen wrench with a $400 trim kit? Fortunately, I had one in my tool box.
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Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Looks like you planned it out well, assuming the base of the thing doesn't scrape. Min/max values just mean the trim will fit, not that you'll like the way it looks...looks good to me!
Thanks. Thankfully, no scraping. I actually got to use the shower today after creating a temporary L-shaped shower curtain rod out of PVC and 3M mounting strips. The glass door and panels will take about 5 weeks before installation by the pros. I'm attaching some photos, because I had a tough time finding something like this on the web. Hopefully others can tailor the design to their needs while waiting for glass panels and a door for their shower remodel.
I'm very thankful for all the help on this forum. Much appreciated!
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