Check valve on toilet leg?

jeffdt

jeffdt

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I have had the waste line that leaves the house fracture twice in the last three years, the breaks were both within ten inches from where they exit thru the foundation wall. On both occasions I was in the shower on the second floor of the house when this has occurred and of course upon coming downstairs I find the hardwoods and carpet in the family room flooded with (well, you know the smell). The culprit is the powder room toilet, it's the lowest waste line on the first floor. Water seeps from both the bottom of the bowl (wax ring) and over flows the rim of the bowl, until the interior waste lines clear. My question is, is it feasible to cut in a check valve on the toilet waste leg prior to it joining the main drain line. I realize that if this happens again the waste lines will back up but hopefully manifest this in the sinks and laundry tubs without ruining the hardwoods and carpet and the basement. Is a check valve on the toilet leg even possible considering the solid waste flow?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Jeff
 
jeffdt said:
I have had the waste line that leaves the house fracture twice in the last three years, the breaks were both within ten inches from where they exit thru the foundation wall. On both occasions I was in the shower on the second floor of the house when this has occurred and of course upon coming downstairs I find the hardwoods and carpet in the family room flooded with (well, you know the smell). The culprit is the powder room toilet, it's the lowest waste line on the first floor. Water seeps from both the bottom of the bowl (wax ring) and over flows the rim of the bowl, until the interior waste lines clear. My question is, is it feasible to cut in a check valve on the toilet waste leg prior to it joining the main drain line. I realize that if this happens again the waste lines will back up but hopefully manifest this in the sinks and laundry tubs without ruining the hardwoods and carpet and the basement. Is a check valve on the toilet leg even possible considering the solid waste flow?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Jeff
Click to expand...

You could install a normally open backwater valve. But it has to be readily accessible for inspection and resetting if it gets tripped closed.
 
You are addressing the symptom, not the problem.

Why not find why this is plugging up instead of redirecting the back up into a sink.

To answer your original question, It is possible to put a check valve on the WC waste leg.
(don't waste your money doing this. Find the cause of your back up instead)
 
pipe

If you really mean "fractured" then you have a major problem and stopping the symptoms is not the cure. If you just mean that it plugged up, then you also have to find out why it is happening, because it is NOT a normal situation. Even if you were to install a back water valve, it might not stop the flooding, because they are VERY susceptible to failure if a piece of paper or anything else gets lodged in the seal. The BWV MIGHT slow down the flooding, but I would NEVER count on it to stop it completely. And you are correct, that if it could not flood from the toilet it would then flood over the tubs or sinks, and not very long after the toilet would have flooded, either. FIND out what is wrong and fix that first. What you are planning to do is like putting a bandaid on a compound fracture to mend it. You have to fix the broken bone before worrying about the bleeding.
 
Thanks for the advice. By fractured I meant the 4" PVC waste line that exits my basement was broken. So waste water no longer flowed to the main pumping station, it just backed up into the house's drain lines This waste line exits the house about 18" below grade and runs through our red Georgia clay. I'm assuming I must have some ground settlement issues. Right now about 4' of the waste line is exposed where it's been dug up for repair. Should i backfill this area with sand to promote better drainage? I understand your points of a back flow preventer being a band aid but I'd rather notice a backed up sink then a flooded hardwood entry foyer, a carpeted family room and the basement. As far as settlement issues go I have no clue as to how to address those. I do have a downspout that drains within two feet of the area where the broken section is located, I will be running an extension on that to get the rain runoff further away.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
:confused: It does sound like you are having ground movement but this will usually happen in newer homes. So how new is it? Fairly new you can report this to the builder and usually there is some kind of insurance for so many years after the home was built. You also did not mention if you drain into a sump pump, drain field, septic tank or a city sewer system. BUT the pipe should never break and the cost and problem of installing a back flow device should be spent on getting the problem fix. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what a drainage problem could be playing here as you stated. A 4" pipe is pretty thick and strong so why its cracking? There must be a lot of movement. Georgia usually doesn't get that cold to cause freezing 18 inches below grade and then it would take much more colder temps to get the warm waste water to freeze. It just sounds like the entire pipe from the house to the "street" or septic tank/field needs to be dug up and find out what's happening. Digging dirty doesn't require a plumber but once you have it all dug up, then get a plumber. :) If you are in a very old home is the 4" pvc tied to a clay pipe?

A short term solution and low cost is a water sensor alarm. Google on "water sensor alarm" and there are plenty out there and for about $30 you can get one. After you get your pipe problem fixed you can still use this at the water heater, laundry room, etc.
 
Last edited:
WorthFlorida said:
:confused: It does sound like you are having ground movement but this will usually happen in newer homes. So how new is it? Fairly new you can report this to the builder and usually there is some kind of insurance for so many years after the home was built. You also did not mention if you drain into a sump pump, drain field, septic tank or a city sewer system. BUT the pipe should never break and the cost and problem of installing a back flow device should be spent on getting the problem fix. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what a drainage problem could be playing here as you stated. A 4" pipe is pretty thick and strong so why its cracking? There must be a lot of movement. Georgia usually doesn't get that cold to cause freezing 18 inches below grade and then it would take much more colder temps to get the warm waste water to freeze. It just sounds like the entire pipe from the house to the "street" or septic tank/field needs to be dug up and find out what's happening. Digging dirty doesn't require a plumber but once you have it all dug up, then get a plumber. :) If you are in a very old home is the 4" pvc tied to a clay pipe?

A short term solution and low cost is a water sensor alarm. Google on "water sensor alarm" and there are plenty out there and for about $30 you can get one. After you get your pipe problem fixed you can still use this at the water heater, laundry room, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks Florida,

The House was built in '97. Waste line drains into a municipal sewer system. As it exits the house, it's not just splitting but breaking clean in two. Both times it's been dug up, the run past the break has been found to be about two to three inches below the portion exiting the house. That's the problem. Is the waste water exiting the house from the break causing the run post break to sink or is something causing the long run to the sewer main to break off from the house? Why does it break within two feet of the house? If something was causing the line to sink it seems to me that the break would occur anywhere along the run. Lol, maybe my house is sinking. Scary huh? Maybe it's not a plumber i need but a soils engineer!!
 
jeffdt said:
Why does it break within two feet of the house?
Click to expand...
In my area, we have alot of gray clay, but I/m also finding a great amount of underground streams.My home is still moving after 50 + years
I wonder if ,when your house was built, any undergound streams were not taken into account.
 
drain

Your "backed up sink" will OVERFLOW and cause exactly the same damage as a backed up toilet. It might just take a few minutes longer before it happens because the water will have to rise a bit higher in the pipe, but it will not take that much water, or time, for it to happen. You MUST address the breaking pipe situation, and all that would normally require would be replacing at least of portion of the clay pipe with a more durable material. WE were never allowed to bring clay pipe closer than 4' away from the building just to prevent situations like this.
 
Question? When the pipe breaks and it is then re-connected do the two pipe ends match up straight or are they out of till from each other. Also at the clean break how much space is opened between the two ends. It sure seems there is movement but as you stated is the house moving. Are you on a hill? Do any of the neighbors have this problem? You should take pictures and post them. If the house is moving there should be some cracking of the concrete going on.
 
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