New Disposal - 48 hours!

Took me around 48 hours to finish adding a new sink and disposal. And I am worried about the disposal drain. I replaced an 8 inch deep double sink with the same and the disposal is an Insinkerator Evolution Excel. The spec sheet showed a B dimension(bottom of sink to center of discharge tube) of 6 11/16 inches. My old disposal was at 8 inches for the same dimension. After I get the new disposal installed on the sink this B dimension is really 7 1/2 inches. If I put a level from the drain pipe in the wall to the disposal discharge I have a 1/4 inch drop over 10 inches.

I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the trap in this space. Here is a picture of my final solution.

http://thehemps.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=22180

Is there any other way to plumb this? The extension on the left side of the trap is what I am worried about. I could shorten this drop by cutting the disposal discharge tube, but I only gain an inch and need 1 1/2 inches to make the drain in the wall. I tried various ways to come straight out of the disposal but could not get it to work. The 1/4 inch drop is a worry also to me. But I was not about to attempt to lower the drain in the wall at this point as my wife wanted the kitchen back.

Thanks, Tom

P.S. Hope this does not make the 2009 Pig Slop page.

No double traps under a sink

Dishwasher drain should be hooked to an Air Gap, then ran from the Air Gap to the barbed nipple on the garbage disposal.


This keeps the chamber of the garbage disposal clear and free flowing.



IF you leave that dishwasher drain hooked to the tapped tailpiece or the disposal without an Air Gap, you have a direct connection to the drainage system which poses a serious health risk.

High looping the drain inside the cabinet does not solve this "direct connection" issue. It's code in many states and yours may or may not enforce the standard, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I guarantee you it is required on commercial applications in your state, no doubt.


Running that wastewater from the dishwasher into the disposal also minimizes the sound, given there's a baffle on that side of the disposal's opening. The side you have it on, there's no way to lessen the sound without installing the basket strainer, which won't allow for draining during this.

BAD situation on the DW connection. And I can't see behind on the left, how those two trap arms come into the drain, but it can't be good!

RUGGED said:

No double traps under a sink

Click to expand...

When my house built in the mid 90's, they put two traps under my kitchen sink much like what is in the picture here. I'm assuming that it is acceptable for the time and location when this work was done. Of course the inspector could have overlooked it. Is this a local code or a "universal" code requirement?

Ok, will work on the dishwasher connection with Air Gap. The drain coming out of the walk is black ABS pipe, a 45 Wye Double. Both traps run into it. House was built in 1984 and it was done this way. I remember specifically the plumber telling me that he was going to run the dishwasher drain to the left bowl because he said that dishwasher waste into the disposal would shorten its life. This disposal lasted over 24 years and was still running but sounded like a jet engine.

I also agreed back then to doing the main house plumbing in black ABS, now it is hard to find. But was saving some money then.

Tom

Those made the gallery

that wasn't nice

When and if the DIYer gets the pipes dumping into one side of the double wye can that leave the other side for a cleanout¿

CarlH said:

When my house built in the mid 90's, they put two traps under my kitchen sink much like what is in the picture here. I'm assuming that it is acceptable for the time and location when this work was done. Of course the inspector could have overlooked it. Is this a local code or a "universal" code requirement?

Click to expand...

Are your two p-traps separately vented? Otherwise it's a no-no no matter where you are.

Basement_Lurker said:

Are your two p-traps separately vented? Otherwise it's a no-no no matter where you are.

Click to expand...

No separate vent. After the two traps there is the wye like in the picture here. Now you make me wonder why this is a no no. I have not had any problems with the traps not keeping sewer gases out. One of the nice things about having two traps is on the two occasions that a bunch of the peelings was stuffed down the disposer, only the trap for the disposer clogged. This left me with the other basin still draining.

And what did you do with the drain stuffed with peelings¿

drain

That installation is not "double trapped" and two traps are used all the time when there is a height problem. The dishwasher to the tailpiece is ALSO a proper installation, since it is what is done when there is no disposer. The real problem is that the disposer drain is slightly below the opening in the wall, and there is no way to cure that without a plumbing revision.

Only thing I see wrong with that picture is the fact the trap on the disposal is having the extension between the U bend and the quarter bend, and the dishwasher does not loop high enough.

To fix the height problem you need to open the wall and lower the sanitary tee in the wall. Having two p-traps is perfectly legal and having them on a single vent is legal as well. Here in Illinois the code states they want the disposal on its own trap separate from the other side of the sink, and you can not use the knock out on the disposal for a drain point for the dishwasher.


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Now if you have a look at tis picture from the Illinois code book, they show a double wye with two traps and a c.o in the middle. So it is a legal.

I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

Thanks again, Tom

themp said:

I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

Thanks again, Tom

Click to expand...

You are all set the way I see it. I would not change anything!

themp said:

I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

Thanks again, Tom

Click to expand...

Ok we can not see the loop, that is why many where saying it was needed.

As for the trap if you draw a line from the quarter bend across towards the disposal you will see the water will be sitting in your disposal unit. This is bad. To fix this you need to open the wall and lower the drainage tee, it sounds harder than it really is. I have done many of these when people put in deeper sinks and or upgrade to them new monster sized ISE's

SewerRatz said:

Ok we can not see the loop, that is why many where saying it was needed.

As for the trap if you draw a line from the quarter bend across towards the disposal you will see the water will be sitting in your disposal unit. This is bad. To fix this you need to open the wall and lower the drainage tee, it sounds harder than it really is. I have done many of these when people put in deeper sinks and or upgrade to them new monster sized ISE's

Click to expand...

You can not draw a line on a distorted picture and figure out much at all. All that he has to do is look inside the disposal and see if water is collecting there.

drain

quote; To fix this you need to open the wall and lower the drainage tee, it sounds harder than it really is. I have done many of these

How many have you done where the tee is offset behind one of cabinets and the drain opening is at the end of a horizontal pipe? The comment about the water flush being manual or automatic, implies that the requirement applies to commercial disposers, not residential ones.

Just curious , he stated the wye was 1/4 " lower than the disposal drain . Why would there be standing water in the disposal ?

Dishwasher drain hooked to an Air Gap, then led to the barbed nipple on the side of the disposal.


Disposer tee kit for the drain, which is a end outlet waste kit,


remove the wye at the opening of the drain at the wall,


one trap and it is DONE. No more discussion about it.


This turned into a job much more harder than it needed to be, and 48 hours?


I'm serious; I value my time significantly more than others when I know there's certain things I can't do.


I love it when old ladies, widows tell me their husband fixed everything in the home, then I open the cabinets and say WHAT THE ****?! is that?


Guess what...


Those loving husbands did what they didn't want to admit; pass the buck so you can hate them when they're dead, just blowing through the money to fix all those rigged repairs yo cheap *** didn't want to spend the money on the first time.

Nobody gets a ribbon for half assing a job using the wrong materials thinking it's okay "Cuz I'm a homeowner and I don't know better!"


"Dueeaaaaayyyyeee!"


Anyone want to see my invoices for proof? Hmm???!!!

Have to respond to RUGGED

48 hours was when I was done after starting but it was not a continous 48 hours on the project. Most of the time was spent heading to Home Depot looking at the different fittings and working out the puzzle. I did burn some gas on at least 6 trips. I was also messing with the faucet which did not work out the best(I had another thread on that one). The final outcome was that the plumbing is exactly the same as it was except for that P trap extenson which I did not really like and that is why I posted here.

I never knew that the wye was not a good thing as this was how the house was plumbed originally. So, my mission was to keep the basic setup the same. It has been 24 years with the old sink and disposal. I also feel the original plumber was right in not running the dishwasher drain to the disposal as it shortens the life of the disposal.

The air gap. I had a sewer blockage last year in which when it backed up high enough in the house it came out the first floor tub and toilet. So, in looking at the whole picture of my first floor, the next higher drain is the wash tub in the laundry room, followed by the bathroom sink, followed by the kitchen sink and the highest would be the washer drain. So, the chances seem very slim that this would backup to the kitchen sink before we would discover it. Then tonight I took a look at my dishwasher manual and install instructions. It gives 4 options for the drain, 2 with air gap to sink or disposal and 2 without air gap to sink and disposal. On the no air gap option it says that the drain must be connected at least 20 inches higher than the floor the dishwasher sits on. It mentions no high loop. I am not sure what it means other than there might be a back valve somewhere in the dishwasher.
The next question is what really is the problem with waste water backing up into the dishwasher? To me it is no different than what happened when it came out the tub and toilet. It was a mess to clean up. I assume you could run the dishwasher a few times and sanitize the system. I do see that the air gap which is higher than the sink itself will always protect the dishwasher, but again why does it have to be protected when waste water is flowing over the kitchen sink at this point to the kitchen floor. To me having to cut a hole in the sink or counter for this air gap seems like over kill just to protect the dishwasher.

My last comment is that maybe I am a closet plumber as I really like to read these forums regularly. Terry Love is a plumber by trade and sponsors this site and it would seem that DIY people make the most use of these forums. So, someday you real plumbers might have to fix our DIY pig slop, but for me I had a blast doing the work and hopefully these forums minimized the slop.

Tom