Shallow Well Pipe Size?

I am installing a 1 1/2 Hp Flotec sprinkler pump with a 1 1/2" intake and discharge. I am told that driven well points are no longer available in this size. Should I go with a 2" or a 1 1/4" point and pipe. Also would I be better off with a 4 or a 5 foot well point in order to draw enough water. This will be used only for sprinklers. I will be driving about 16-20 feet of pipe in all and have limited overhead room(basement ceiling is 8 feet high) Thanks..

It probably won't matter how you do it with that pump.

Driving the pipe in the ground doesn't guarantee water. You should use the longest screen you can find. Beat in 5' sections, using drive couplings, with the pipe butted together inside those couplings. You will need a pump handy to test the well every 5' to see if your getting into water or not. A pitcher pump works best for this job.

You will have a lot better luck staying with 1-1/4" pipe and screen than 2". Using a driver not a sledge hammer is recommended also.

Screens come in different shapes and sizes. Slotted, gauze etc. They have different size openings to stop different sizes of sand. If a neighbor has already done this, you might ask what size screen he used.

bob...

Shallow Well Pipe Size

Thanks Bob,
I got the pipe today (1 1/4"x 5' well point and 4' galvanized pipe). I would have liked to use all 5' but ceiling clearance would not have allowed me to hook up pulley and drive pipe. All worked well and I reached water at 10 1/2 feet and I went down 21 feet altogether. I was not able to rent a pitcher pump so I relied on a washer on the string to determine the water table (which is where my neighbors said they had hit water). I understand these Flotec Thermoplastic pumps are more sensitve to sediment. How would you suggest I clean the pipe before hooking up the pump. Also what would be the best material to use in the transition from galvanized pipe to the pump. As I am new to this, with the only experience of having helped my father put in a Sears shallow well pump some 30 years ago as a kid, I want to tell you I really appreciate your help.
Jack

Your a glutten for punishment with those plastic pumps. If you can't rent a pitcher pump, you can buy one. That's what I recommend still with a 5 gallon bucket. I wouldn't recommend running a lot of sand through that pump of yours.

Buy the way, you should have been pumping the well every 5 foot or so. You can get water in the pipe and still not have any appreciable amount of water. And if you go past the vein, the same can apply. Or you may have only a portion of what is really available.

bob...

Pipe Not Holding Water

Hi Bob,

I am waiting for one of my neighbors to return from his Florida vacation. I'm told by another neighbor that he borrowed a pitcher pump from him when he did his well and he thinks he still has it. In the meantime this neighbor told me I should use a garden hose to force some of the sediment and sand to the surface and clean out the point. I did this tonight. It took about 2-3 minutes before the sandy water filled the pipe and overflowed. I kept agitating the hose from the top to the bottom of the pipe for about five minutes until the water ran clear. But when I went and turned on the hose again the pipe never filled up. I ran it for at least five minutes and I could hear the water sounding as if it was rising but it never came to the top. Any ideas??? When I dropped the washer on a string I hear it hit water at 8 feet (which is about 12 feet from ground level since I'm in a basement)
Thanks,
Jack

You should still pump it off Jack.

The fact that it drinks water is a good thing. That means it will make water too.

bob...

No Pressure

Hi Bob,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Everything went as you said. I pumped all sediment out with a pitcher pump. Thanks again for all your advice. This Sunday my friend who is an electrician, hooked me up to 220 volt service. Yesterday I finished the pvc piping to the outside. I filled the priming port and replaced the plug, started her up and she pumped fine. I then took the priming plug out and went to install the factory recommended Flotec pressure gauge. Only problem was it had a 3/8" diameter thread with a 1/2" fitting. The inlet port was 3/4". I called Flotec and spoke with one of their "experts". He told me I should tap a 3/8" hole in the top of the plastic priming plug, disgarding the 1/2" adapter fitting and using the 3/8". I did all, topped off the pump and inserted the plug with gauge attached. I started the pump and the gauge read zero. I called them back and they said there must be a leak on the suction side. I only found a small drip at the discharge pipe, which I fixed. Started it again, zero pressure. I put the gauge up to a sink faucet and it registered 5-8 pounds. I have checked everything over and over. When I unscrew the plug it is all water pressure coming out, no air. The discharge water is also clean and clear of any air bubbles. My friend and I measured the amount of GPM's until we flooded my neighbor's yard and it is 24-26 GPM (depending on who clocks it). Any ideas???
Thanks,
Jack

If your getting that much water you must have bought a self priming centrifugal. It sounds like you screwed the gauge into a suction hole instead of a pressure port.

Although it doesn't matter much if the pump is pumping that good, it must be working. Hook up a sprinkler and see if it puts out a good stream of water.

The amount of water you are seeing is probably what the well is doing and that is great for an 1/1/4" well.

bob...

Pressure Gauge

Hi Bob
The gauge came with a choice of 3/8" or 1/2" fitting and the priming hole was 3/4". I called Flotec. Their "expert" told me I would have to either buy a 3/4" adapter or "do what most people do" and tap a 3/8" hole into the plastic prime plug, install the gauge with the 3/8" fitting and then replace the plug. This is the location he said to put the gauge. But then again they sell this TC2104 gauge specifically for this pump and yet you have to buy an adapter in order to install it. Makes no sense. I was thinking that this Rube Golberg setup that the expert had me do might be affecting the gauge. I might just buy another 3/4" threaded gauge and see what happens. I want to install an inground sprinkler system so even though I'm getting the 24 GPM, I still would need to know what the pressure is, right?
Thanks,
Jack

Most gauges are 1/4" NPT (about 3/8" OD) and we reduce the 1" or 3/4" hole outlet of the pump, as with a tee, down to 1/4" and screw the gauge into it. Then to prime we remove the largest reducer (bushing) and the rest along with the gauge all as one piece and prime and replace it.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Yes, you'll still need to know what the pressure is. Sprinklers are rated at gpm at a certain pressure. Once you know these numbers, you'll be able to size the zones to fit your pump. However, be aware that when pressure goes up, the less gpm the pump will produce.
Ron

Pressure Gauge

Hi Gary & Ron,
Thanks for the info. Ron, when you say you reduce the outlet to 1/4" and hook up the gauge to it , do you mean the discharge line? This pump has a 1 1/2" inlet and outlet. According to Flotec the gauge is supposed to be mounted in the priming hole which is located just behind the discharge outlet. But since it reads zero pressure I'm willing to try another location if it will give me a pressure reading.
Thanks,
Jack

I think what is going on is you are running the pump open discharge which wouldn't show much of any pressure. You have to restrict the flow from the pump to see any pressure.

I love plastic pumps.

bob...

Zero Pressure

Hi Bob,

I think we are getting somewhere with this. My wife's uncle is a retired engineer and he said the same thing about unrestricted flow causing no pressure to build up. I have a 1 1/2" PVC on the discharge side. What size should I reduce it to in order to get a pressure reading? I was thinking of doing this but since I'm not a plumber I had no idea what size to reduce to and I didn't want to damage the pump.

Thanks,
Jack

P.S. You have me saying the same thing about these plastic pumps!

You don't want to change the pipe size, you should hook it up to your sprinklers if you have any and see what it does. Or if your just testing it, put a ball valve on the end of the pipe and close it off slowly, as you do the pressure will come up. You will be doing good to get 50 psi, I would say 40 is more like it.

Oh; and with the plastic pumps, you will get the hate them more as time goes on.

bob...

majackel said:

Hi Gary & Ron,
Thanks for the info. Ron, when you say you reduce the outlet to 1/4" and hook up the gauge to it , do you mean the discharge line? This pump has a 1 1/2" inlet and outlet. According to Flotec the gauge is supposed to be mounted in the priming hole which is located just behind the discharge outlet. But since it reads zero pressure I'm willing to try another location if it will give me a pressure reading.
Thanks,
Jack

Click to expand...

That would be on/in the outlet of the pump, you reduce the hole to the size of the threads on the gauge; leaving the water line size the same. Use a nipple into a tee and put the gauge in one part of the tee and your water line in the other.

Most gauges are 1/4" NPT, male actually, so they screw into a 1/4" FPT and that fitting would screw into the remining hole you plumbed for the gauge.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Pressure Gauge

Hi Bob & Gary,

So I should put a PVC tee fitting at the end of the 1 1/2" discharge. Plug one side of the tee, tap a hole and insert the gauge into it. On the other side I should connect a ball valve with a hose fitting to a sprinkler and then run the pump. As I close the valve this should be my pressure reading? I know they say not to run the pump with valves closed, so should I just close it part way.
Thanks,
Jack

The outlet of a pump is where you screw a fitting into the hole and connect a water line to the fitting and the water runs out the other end of the water line. Make that fitting a tee and install the gauge in one part of the tee. On the far end of the water line, if you aren't connectiing a sprinkler head or something you can turn off, install a valve and close it partially and read the pressure back at the pump's outlet. That's the psi that you have for your system and where the pressure switch is, so use the gauge to adjust the switch.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

And if your using a pressure switch with a self primer, your looking for a nuked pump and fittings if the water level changes. If you noticed; the self primer didn't come with a pressure switch. There is a good reason for that. If you add the switch and a tank, you may not like the results down the road.

If you must do the above.
If you want a pressure switch system, stay with a jet pump or a submersible.

bob...

Pressure Gauge

Thanks Bob & Gary. It worked perfectly and I got a pressure reading of approximately 40 PSI. This is in line with the performance chart for the pump which lists between 27 GPM for 10 feet depth and 20 GPM at 15 feet both at 40 PSI . I am pumping approximatey 24-26 GPM at about a 10 1/2 foot depth. Bob I am going with your suggestion and not installing a pressure switch since this is only for a sprinkler system. I really appreciate all the help. Twenty or thirty years ago everyone was putting in these wells here on Long Island. Now you can't find anyone around who is familiar with the systems. The hardware store where I bought my point, pipes etc. is a family run operation. The father, who is in his 80's, told me he hasn't had anyone purchase well equiptment in about 15 years and they are the only one in about 20 miles who carry the stuff. He told me that 30 years ago you could tell him where you lived and he could tell you exactly how far to hit water. I guess times have changed. Well (no pun intended), time to start figuring my in ground sprinkler system. Thanks again, Jack