Chris75
Electrician
I agree, I used to dislike 220, but then I realized I was just brainwashed by mike holts code forum.
Internal cable clamps and old wiring
- Thread starter RandomS
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I agree, I used to dislike 220, but then I realized I was just brainwashed by mike holts code forum.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
So based on the last two replies I suppose that the letter of the codes can be thrown out the window when it is being done by someone other than a licensed person.
Right is Right and wrong is wrong no matter who is making the installation so if you decide to do as these idiots are telling you then more power to the lot to you.
If you decide that you want to make a professional installation then do it the right way.
The choice is yours and the battle will be between you and your insurance company should they ever need to do a pay off due to a jury rigged installation.
Right is Right and wrong is wrong no matter who is making the installation so if you decide to do as these idiots are telling you then more power to the lot to you.
If you decide that you want to make a professional installation then do it the right way.
The choice is yours and the battle will be between you and your insurance company should they ever need to do a pay off due to a jury rigged installation.
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Bob NH
In the Trades
I suspect that, at least with respect to homeowners, "The insurance won't pay" argument does not apply. I would like to see a citation from a real policy.
I have carefully examined my homeowners insurance policy, which is the contract between me and the company, and there is nothing in it about not paying for loss or injury resulting from work not done to code or without a permit, whether done by myself or others.
There may be something in a business policy but nothing in a homeowners policy that I have ever seen.
I am also familiar with provisions of professional policies such as "Errors and Omissions" policies that cover engineers and architects. They explicitly cover the consequences of errors and omissions, with some provisions that depend on the policy.
I'm calling your bet. Show 'em or I collect the pot.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
It will not be a matter of the insurance paying off or not as in most states the insurance will pay off.
It is a matter that the insurance company can and has counter sued for the loss due to an illegal installation or one that has not been documented by an inspection.
Come back
Alectrician
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That is exactly what your problem is.
Nothing in life is black and white. Everything is open to interpetation and judgement.
Just because it's the law doesn't make it right. I have proven that to you but of course did not get a response. Radicals can never win a debate because they are stuck on one thing. They do not allow anything in that doesn't fit their criteria.
Aw come on Chris. NOBODY dislikes me. I'm the nicest guy in the world
You may dislike my opinions or disagree with how I present them but there is no way anyone could not love me
Bob NH
In the Trades
The homeowner's insurance company may sue the pro who installed something contrary to code, but they would have to show that it caused the loss.
In that case the installers insurance company should defend him and pay any judgement.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
The insurance has also been known to sue the homeowner when noncompliant, non-permitted and non-inspected installations have been made.
Chris75
Electrician
Mike, all I can say is I have proven you wrong more than once on this site, so you can feel any way you want towards me, I am a PROFESSIONAL electrician, but I also live in the real world, not la-la land. 
Bob NH
In the Trades
Please provide the case citation and verdict. I am very interested in any case where a homeowner's insurance company as sued the homeowner insured by the company. The legal basis should be interesting.
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CodeOne
Code Enforcement
ive noticed alot of different thoughts on this issue some of them very adamate. But you do have to admit that by cutting the clamps off you are altering the ul listing of the box and by drilling other holes in the box you are doing the same. Also you are not making a code compliant instullation. Most likely a code official would turn you down if you had the required permit and inspections. How you resolve the issue is always best if you try to be compliant for everybodys sake.
Weather you try to do things right by code or not is a matter of conscience. But a good Electrician will always try to do a code compliant job.Because the code is for a reasonably safe system not a cheap way to do things.
Weather you try to do things right by code or not is a matter of conscience. But a good Electrician will always try to do a code compliant job.Because the code is for a reasonably safe system not a cheap way to do things.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Mike, all I can say is I have proven you wrong more than once on this site, so you can feel any way you want towards me, I am a PROFESSIONAL electrician, but I also live in the real world, not la-la land.
I have never said that I am perfect and yes I do buy pencils with erasers on them but when it comes to telling someone to slide a piece of PVC sheathing where there was fabric sheathing is far from professional.
To even suggest replacing a piece of sheathing over the conductors is nothing short of criminal and there is nothing professional about it except those who want to be remembered as a professional %$&#*@
Bob NH
In the Trades
3M and many others have heatshrink tubing and wrap-around repair kits for ranges of voltages exceeding 1000 Volts. Many meet UL 224 requirements for cable jacketing. They can certainly be used safely to replace or repair jacketing on NM cable without risk of burning the house down.
http://www.intertech-eng.com.au/public/editor_images/Solution_Guide.pdf
http://www.electriciantalk.com/showthread.php?t=31
http://www.ablewire-cable.com/tables/165.html
http://www.dsgcanusa.com/products/product_lowvoltage.htm
http://www.portplastics.com/pec/heatshrink/sumisleeve.html
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/tocs/tocs.asp?doc=s&fn=0224.toc
http://www.alcomet.net/pdf/heatshrink.pdf
http://www.intertech-eng.com.au/public/editor_images/Solution_Guide.pdf
http://www.electriciantalk.com/showthread.php?t=31
http://www.ablewire-cable.com/tables/165.html
http://www.dsgcanusa.com/products/product_lowvoltage.htm
http://www.portplastics.com/pec/heatshrink/sumisleeve.html
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/tocs/tocs.asp?doc=s&fn=0224.toc
http://www.alcomet.net/pdf/heatshrink.pdf
Alectrician
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What can POSSIBLY happen?
Use your imagination and stretch it to the limit. I could be wrong but I am drawing a blank on this one.
Chris75
Electrician
I'm not going to argue this one anymore, Mike is entitled to his opinion. I think I will start this thread on Mike Holts forum just for giggles.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Budweiser makes one hell of a beer can and with a couple of hose clamps it makes a real good coupling for EMT also.
We all know that duck tape will hold a hood on at 200MPH so why not use a little duck tape to hold electrical things in place.
Just where did Joe go? No wonder he deleted the whole forum if this is the type of advice that was being given out by the members.
Just what do you teach your children? Is not right, right and wrong, wrong?
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
I just looked and didn't find your post. Are you going to post a link here to it?
Well are ye or ain’t ye
Three hours later and still not done. Are you scared to make the post?
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Alectrician
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Heh heh.....Can't answer the question huh? The question wasn't about beer cans or duct tape. Try again. Use your imagination but stick to cable sheath.
I teach my children to think for themselves. All I can offer is guidance.
Right is relative, NOT absolute. Dude, I barely made it thru high school and I know that much. If you have any ability to read and comprehend you would have at least acknowledged the points I've made showing this to be true.
Here is another question to skirt. Jesus is right according to Christians, Allah is right according to Muslims. Which is actually right?
I teach my children to think for themselves. All I can offer is guidance.
Right is relative, NOT absolute. Dude, I barely made it thru high school and I know that much. If you have any ability to read and comprehend you would have at least acknowledged the points I've made showing this to be true.
Here is another question to skirt. Jesus is right according to Christians, Allah is right according to Muslims. Which is actually right?
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
There is nothing that you have said that comes clsoe to being code compliant therefore nothing to address.
I sure hope that as you teach your children to think for theirself you also teach them right from wrong.
I hope that you can answer the second question for yourself. If you can't then may the Great Spirit have mercey on your soul.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
four hours and still waiting
Chris75
Electrician
Get you panties out of a bunch, I had to go on a trouble call, seems like someone added some sheath and caught the wall on fire, guess you were right after all.
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