Occasional Well Problems ????????

civilwarrior

civilwarrior

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We had a new submersible 3 inch pump, switch and tank installed about a yr ago. In the last few months we have woken up to absolutely no water a few times. This always happens in the early morining. We left the faucets open and in 45 minutes we have water again.
Freezing should not be an issue as the temps are usually to warm for that.
I went into the pit today and here is what i found.
The original well man set system to 30/50.
Today.....
Switch kicked on at about 32.
With the tank full........Gauge read 46 and tank pressure was 52.
Empty .......Gauge read 0 and Pressure tank was 28.
So I did 30-2+6=34 and put in air to get the pressure tank up to 34.

So my questions are.
1. Did I do this corectly ??
2. What other possible problems could cause our spuratic water issue???
Thanks for having this forum!!
 
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What kind of 3" pump is it? I think you air pressure gauge is reading 6 PSI higher than your water pressure gauge so, the air in the tank should be OK. If you run out of water at the faucet for a second before the pump starts, you still have too much air in the tank.
 
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
We have a 3 " submersible Grundfos pump.
So is the problem we have had consistant with having too little air in the tank???
 
My best bet, since it is first thing in the morning is, the pump is not shutting off at 50 or 46 for some reason at night. The pump gets hot and trips out. Wait a while and it tries again. Shut off power to the pump and see if the pressure drops. Might have a hole in the drop pipe.

Too little or too much air pressure in the tank won’t stop the water completely.
 
Thanks fo the reply.

I Thought of something else. We have a shut off in our basement that drips and a shut off about a foot after the pressure tank that also drips. Could this have an effect at all??? What is a Drop pipe ??? If its the piping that goes the 80 ft down in the well all that was replaced with new pipe a yr ago as well??? Suggestions appreciated.
 
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Is this shutoff that drips... not the one after the tank; between the well and the tank?

If so, is it partially closed?

bob...
 
Thanks for the reply.
No the shut offs that drip are not between the tank and well. First is the well then the pressure switch then the pressure tank then after all that there is a shut off that drips. Then the pipes go underground into the house and there is another shut off that drips in the basement.
 
That kills that theory.

I think the morning thing is coincidental. Like Valveman said, it could be the pumps overload operating.

The Grundfos has a very sensitive overload, underload, waterlog etc. etc built into the 10500 RPM motor they build. A little change in voltage amperage or too many starts per minute will turn off the motor either permanently or temporarily depending on the fault.

It could be your water softener causing the problem during backwash. Along with a tank that is nearly waterlogged.

bob...
 
Thanks for the reply.
We do not have a softener.
I am confused because if it was an overload it should happen when we filll the kids swimming pool or water the garden, do loads of wash and shower 3 kids ect heavy usage times... Instead It only has happened fist thing in the morning when it not being used???
 
Mikerr765 said:
We had a new submersible 3 inch pump, switch and tank installed about a yr ago. In the last few months we have woken up to absolutely no water a few times. This always happens in the early morining. We left the faucets open and in 45 minutes we have water again.
Freezing should not be an issue as the temps are usually to warm for that.
I went into the pit today and here is what i found.
The original well man set system to 30/50.
Today.....
Switch kicked on at about 32.
With the tank full........Gauge read 46 and tank pressure was 52.
Empty .......Gauge read 0 and Pressure tank was 28.
So I did 30-2+6=34 and put in air to get the pressure tank up to 34.

So my questions are.
1. Did I do this corectly ??
2. What other possible problems could cause our spuratic water issue???
Thanks for having this forum!!
Click to expand...
This 30-2+6= BS. You don't know which gauge is reading wrong but... with 28 psi air and switch on at 32 and off at 52 is right.

So the water gauge is not showing the same 52 psi says replace the water gauge BUT... all that has nothing to do with the no water problem! Especailly the 45 minutes you have to wait for water.

I suspect freezing temps IN THE PIT, air temp on the porch 6' above the porch floor doesn't mean the pit isn't freezing; cold air drops to the lowest point it can find, and stays colder than the air flowing above ground.

And as we see, there are few if any other possible explanations for the cause of no water, open faucets and still get none and then 45 minutes later (as things warm up) VIOLA! water galore until the next cold wee hours of some cold temps over night when you think it didn't get cold enough to freeze a water line somewhere... Usually our first guess of what it can't be is what it is. lol

Also, you have a water leak that is draining the pressure tank pressure to 0 or you'd get some water out the faucet when you first turn it on, which says the freezing is probably in the house and not the pit. And you should have fixed or replaced those leaking valves already. I suggest removing the one between the pressure tank back to the pump.
 
So if I lay an thermometer on the the floor of the pit is that a good way to tell if its freezing there?? I have one on the basement pipe and its never gone below 40F???
 
I saw a 3/4" copper pipe that was frozen solid in an otherwise warm 72° basement. There was a crack between the cement blocks near the pipe and the wind blew the cold air into the basement and froze the pipe solid even though it was heated.

bob...
 
Good information from everyone. Thank You!
We used to have a jet pump in our pit and never had any problems with freezing pipes even when it was 10F below for a week straight. But now that we have a submersible pump I have a theory that the jet pump was actually putting off heat in the pit when it ran thus warming up the pit. But with the submersible pump we don't get that heat
anymore. Does this make sense or not???
 
It would generally be colder in the night and early morning hours and that would be when the pump was getting it's least amount of usage. So I doubt the jet pump was keeping the pit worm enough.

bob...
 
I believe it's Thomas that makes one such Thermostat. I have one in my Barn that records low and high temps by means of a little magnetic something that actually moves with the Mercury (probably alcohol) and stays at the highest or lowest limit. They you reset it with a magnet. There are better ones out there, they just cost more money.

bob...
 
I have a little digital indoor/outdoor unit that records the lowest and highest temp for the day. It has a little battery operated remote unit that you put up outside, so you could put this in the pit. They only cost about 30 bucks at the (has everything store). Then you could use it for the house latter as well. They make one that has a rain gauge, wind speed and direction, humidity, pressure, as well as in and outside temp. Those cost about 120 bucks but, I want one.
 
Thanks sounds neat. Would it transmit on the bottom on a 6ft deep pit that is concreate block into the house which is 50 yds away???
 
The one I have which does the rainfall, outdoor temp and wind direction/speed says it will transmit up to 100 feet (basicallly line of sight). It does better than that from my Barn through one wall and into the house. The distance is closer to 150 feet. But asking it to transmit 150 yards from underground would be a stretch.

bob...
 
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