Galvanized pipe rusted...maybe?

Gary,
I appreciate all of the advice and suggestions. I don't appreciate the ridicule when I do a ton of research and follow the same methods advised by state health department literature, local well drillers, forum experts and so on. There is more than one way of dealing with this problem. Other than my very first treatment (with puck), I have treated everything just as suggested (with liquid) but I have not been able to squeeze in follow up treatments. The iron totally disappears for 6 weeks or so after a small chlorination of 6% bleach. 95% of the "experts" have told me try this first. I know that this forum takes time for everyone. Speedbump spends alot of his time tearing down others methods. A good transfer of Q & A is healthy for anyone who will read this in the future and incurs similar problems. Maybe they can benefit from my mistakes or success.

Blan,

Have a nice day, hope you get rid of your IRB problems, I think we've done about all we can do to help you out.

However... I'm not sure why you needed to go back and edit the majority of your posts.

Rancher

I think know why he edited them.

He's a moron and will continue to do things his way. He's too cheap to buy any of the equipment recommended to him even though he wasn't quoted prices from anyone here.

bob...

Not enough land for a new well,not enough money to treat the problem correctly,wants to cut corners as much as he can,complains about the cost of equipment,and cocky as hell......someone needs to boot this guy in the ass and send him on his way.

Sammy

blan said:

Gary, I appreciate all of the advice and suggestions. I don't appreciate the ridicule when I do a ton of research and follow the same methods advised by state health department literature, local well drillers, forum experts and so on. There is more than one way of dealing with this problem. Other than my very first treatment (with puck), I have treated everything just as suggested (with liquid) but I have not been able to squeeze in follow up treatments. The iron totally disappears for 6 weeks or so after a small chlorination of 6% bleach. 95% of the "experts" have told me try this first. I know that this forum takes time for everyone. Speedbump spends alot of his time tearing down others methods. A good transfer of Q & A is healthy for anyone who will read this in the future and incurs similar problems. Maybe they can benefit from my mistakes or success.

Click to expand...

Ridicule.... I don't recall seeing any but maybe you mean corrections to your assumptions.

The health department gets its info from universities and other governmental agencies and combined they usually simply repeat the same decades old message (while supporting the use of chlorine) but... they usually don't know what they are doing because no one there has ever had any hands on experience, just book larnin' if ya know what I mean, IOWs they're dummer'nhell.

Sorry to disagree with you again but... There is only one RIGHT way to deal with any problem, including your water quality problem. And you haven't listened to me yet, and I do water treatment right the first time and usually at the lowest cost of anyone...

You are dealing with IRB, they live in the ground above and under the water table; aerobic and anaerobic (need or don't need air to live). Your shocking the well is killing those within reach of the bleach only and are replaced as soon as you use the smallest amount of water. It is a band aid at best and can cause serious damage to the pump, power cable, drop pipe if metal and metal fittings AND cause nontreatable water quality problems AND a reduction in water production of the well requiring well cleaning and rehabilitation.

Now did you read about any of that at any government site, or from well drillers that live off drilling new wells or working on old bad wells, or any 'forum experts' that only are 'cuz they own or have owned or wouldn't want to own a well? I think not except for Speedbump and I....

Now you want to inject bleach through and into your steel well casing to dribble or run down the inside of it.... chlorine eats steel very quickly, within days, trust me on that. Note Speedbump's caution too.

And you can't drill a new well on your property!

That's because you don't have a way to get a drilling rig in. See now I would have thought about that before building any building to prevent a drilling rig or derrick truck to my ONE'N ONLY ever WELL!!

Since that is the case, you best treat that well and its casing as if it was Fort Knox because the future value of the ENTIRE property depends on it.

Property like a house with no water is worthless. The same goes for a property with useless water. You know I'm right. So get rid of the attitude and stop all assumptions or run a high risk of really screwing up your future. It's your choice to get over your hurt feelings or not.

I have equipment that will kill the bacteria, stop any odor and oxidize iron, H2S and any manganese and then filter out the chlorine and rust/dirt delivered anywhere in the lower 48 for less than $1750.00. That is with an automatically backwashed filter large enough for a 2.5 to 3 bathroom house. You may not need that size filter and then the price would be less. I have sold that system for 15 years and since Sept 2003, roughly 50 of them to DIYers online. But you don't have to buy from me, there are a lot of online and local dealers, but you better listen to me and others here and buy something instead of using bleach in your well consistently and damaging it permanently because it's the only well your house will ever have.

Just curious, if the guy has a shallow-well jet pump (single PVC drop pipe), doesn't he have a bit more latitude for treating the water in the well than those folks with submersibles? No wiring or pump to get damaged by chlorine.

Can IRB appear when water tables become lower in drought? I have some customers who actually had a major increase in the water table they pumped from, attributed to the aftereffects of the blasting from nearby highway construction.

How do the analysis numbers look, as far as treatment goes?

Yeah but he still has a steel casing.
I don't know of any effects of a fluctuating water table, and all do that if the well is a rock bore type as opposed to a sand and gravel screened type. And they may do the same for all I know; especially those with more than one area of screen.

There is nothing I know of that can be used in a well other than chlorine in liquid or pellet form. I have used pellet droppers when it is the only thing that can be used due to space or other restrictions. I really don't like to use them for various reasons but he doesn't have a submersible pump or metal drop pipe so there would be less risk but... he also doesn't have power at the well unless his pump is next to it and if not he'd have to run power to the well.

But then he'd still need the turbidity filter to remove the rust and chlorine taste and odor from the water, and pellet droppers are more expensive, larger and stick up 2.5' to 3' above the casing out in the yard for kids and dogs to knock around and droppers take more maintenance than my inline chlorinator and mixing tank system.

I just reread most of this thread to be able to reply now, and I see his water analysis data for the first time. He has 6 ppm of ferrous soluble clear water iron. That is where his orange water is coming from and it is the food source for the IRB. Iron is the first or second most abundant mineral on the planet.

If he didn't have that much iron before, then a new water bearing strata opened or the water table fell due to new construction of new wells in the area ext., but it's there now and probably not ever going to go away. And over time it may get worse.

It's a wonder he doesn't have an odor problem too. And that may come later. When ferrous iron is oxidized, air is an oxidizer, it turns the water orange. Then there is the IRB problem. The iron content will fluctuate with the IRB colony size. They eat themselves out of their food source and die off, then build up to repeat the process.

You figure, for the value of the real estate, he just bites the bullet and deals with the water issues in a responsible manner. A customer of mine with ferrous iron has to treat the water with a greensand filtration and permanganate regeneration. Whenever the level in the well drops to the pump, lots of orange scum clogs up the sprinkler system strainer. (I kind of wish the Vu-Flow guys made extra-large strainer screens for some of the systems I deal with)

Rancher,
I only edited posts where my "first guess" was incorrect and only if nobody commented on them anyway. It was just wasted space and I wanted the flow of the posts to make sense with what was being answered and where our conclusions ended up. I didn't see a need to send readers on a wild goose chase with some of my earlier guesswork. Sorry if that bugged you. I tried not to change anything that was commented on so it would all make sense.

Gary,
I never thought of looking into well codes because we had perfect water before the garage build. I would never think a 6 year old well would turn on me that fast...live and learn I guess. My water isn't orange. It looks clear at first but it turns orange as it oxidizes in a container. I won't ever be left without a well because the county will allow variances in extreme/hardship cases but they aren't going to listen to anyone whos well can be treated with 5k of equipment. My deal is this, I might have the opportunity to put in a shared artesian well with my neighbor. I don't want to spend thousands on my current 100ft well when I can put about the same money into a 600ft artesian well. I didn't mention this because I didn't think it was necessary. Since everyone is on my case about spending money, I thought I better explain. The neighbor told me that he planned on building in 2007 but he has yet to break ground. Unfortunately, alot of my problems stem from the fact that someone split my land in half long ago into a size that no longer constitues a legal building lot. That makes it tough to conform to current codes. We love it here so I just have to work a little harder to get things passed. If my writing is coming across as attitude, I don't mean it that way. You've had some great advice.

Wetboots
It sounds like you are not far from me because what you are experiencing mimics our situation. I also think it has something to do with the drought. Yes, my well is a 100ft galvanized casing with a 30 foot PVC drop. Chances of the water getting better on its own would probably be a pipe dream though. I was looking into a greensand filter seriously but then I ran across this iron filter by Terminox that was described to me like it was the holy grail of iron filters. Same BS you hear everywhere. I'd like to hear the cons to this system because all I have heard so far is the pros. I guess you don't have to manually service it over time with the toxic (I think permanganate) solution. It auto regenerates when needed and is supposed to be rated for 20 years. They also sold the greensand units but they acted as if it was now old technology. I'm not selling it...just want to hear more about it from owners of them. I've also been looking into my choices of chlorine injection systems. I purchased a softener yesterday that is rated for like 10ppm iron. They were new softeners dirt cheap due to wet boxes. He had 15 available on Thursday and by Friday I had purchased his last one for $200. How can I go wrong...it is worth that just to experiment and see the changes it brings about with a water retest. The in home sales people wanted $2500-$3500 for softener with similiar specs. I'm excited to hook it up and try it out. Bob in NH gave me some great advice on what settings to go with considering my water results...nice guy.

Honestly, we are a middle income family struggling to make ends meet right now like most people these days. I don't ask for special treatment or handouts. Just a little patience and some ideas about the most economical way to deal with this problem until a better solution (deep artesian) is an option for us. With the exception of a few child-like lashouts, most of the suggestions have been great. Thanks to the folks who host this forum for making it possible to get professonal help like this.

Give the guy a break. By the way they did make a galvanized bladder tank back in the seventies.

The green sand filter work good. If you get one of them get what is called a pot feeder. You put the potassium in it and the filter regenerates like a water softener.

I have used some of the other iron filters. They tend to be sensitive to tannins and other organics.

Pitless,

Who made a galvanized bladder tank? The closest thing to a galvanized bladder tank I ever came across was the Merrill Float that was added to a galvanized tank to supposedly separate the water from the air. Great idea, it just didn't work.

bob...

I think it was State. They tried their glass lined tanks and they didn't work so thay tried galvanized and it didn't work. They must have been trying to get around Well-x-trol's patent on the plastic liner.

I'll be darned. I never knew about that one.

As far as State is concerned, I think they should have stayed with Water Heaters. I sure don't have much use for their Bladder Tanks.

bob...

pitless said:

The green sand filter work good. If you get one of them get what is called a pot feeder. You put the potassium in it and the filter regenerates like a water softener.

I have used some of the other iron filters. They tend to be sensitive to tannins and other organics.

Click to expand...

Greensand is very old technology and potassium permanganate is a serious poison. Greensand is very heavy mineral and requires a serious backwash flow rate or it will fail quickly. There are many other means of treatment that don't have those problems.

Gary Slusser said:

Greensand is very old technology and potassium permanganate is a serious poison. Greensand is very heavy mineral and requires a serious backwash flow rate or it will fail quickly. There are many other means of treatment that don't have those problems.

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Gary,
Do you have any experience with or knowledge about the "Terminox I.S.M: Ultra all purpose chemical free, salt free, maintenance free well water iron filters"?

blan said:

I only edited posts where my "first guess" was incorrect and only if nobody commented on them anyway. It was just wasted space and I wanted the flow of the posts to make sense with what was being answered and where our conclusions ended up. I didn't see a need to send readers on a wild goose chase with some of my earlier guesswork. Sorry if that bugged you. I tried not to change anything that was commented on so it would all make sense.

Click to expand...

But without the rest of us editing our replies, they won't make sense to readers.

blan said:

Gary, I never thought of looking into well codes because we had perfect water before the garage build. I would never think a 6 year old well would turn on me that fast...live and learn I guess. My water isn't orange. It looks clear at first but it turns orange as it oxidizes in a container. I won't ever be left without a well because the county will allow variances in extreme/hardship cases but they aren't going to listen to anyone whos well can be treated with 5k of equipment. My deal is this, I might have the opportunity to put in a shared artesian well with my neighbor. I don't want to spend thousands on my current 100ft well when I can put about the same money into a 600ft artesian well. I didn't mention this because I didn't think it was necessary. Since everyone is on my case about spending money, I thought I better explain. The neighbor told me that he planned on building in 2007 but he has yet to break ground. Unfortunately, alot of my problems stem from the fact that someone split my land in half long ago into a size that no longer constitues a legal building lot. That makes it tough to conform to current codes. We love it here so I just have to work a little harder to get things passed. If my writing is coming across as attitude, I don't mean it that way. You've had some great advice.

Click to expand...

Someone split up your land... not if you didn't own it and they did, it wasn't and isn't your land.

Well codes? I guess you mean the possible need for drilling a new well or this one deeper. IMO you are doing the same thing with your present decisions concerning your water treatment and equipment.

blan said:

I purchased a softener yesterday that is rated for like 10ppm iron. I'm excited to hook it up and try it out. Bob in NH gave me some great advice on what settings to go with considering my water results...nice guy.

Click to expand...

I do not know of any softener that will remove 6 ppm of iron consistently for very long. And you've gone and bought one. I guess because of a special price when you could have put that money and part of the price for going in with the neighbor drilling a well and you sharing it... And BobNH gave you the settings for it... Let us know how it works for you.

Someone split up your land... not if you didn't own it and they did, it wasn't and isn't your land.

OK...let me rephrase that, a previous owner of my property divided it in half creating what is now an illegal building lot size.

Well codes? I guess you mean the possible need for drilling a new well or this one deeper. IMO you are doing the same thing with your present decisions concerning your water treatment and equipment.

Drilling the current well deeper is not an option. Sharing an artesian well with my neighbor isn't just a possibility, it's really a probability because he will have the same code issues to deal with in building his home/well. He has the other half of the original lot.

I do not know of any softener that will remove 6 ppm of iron consistently for very long. And you've gone and bought one. I guess because of a special price when you could have put that money and part of the price for going in with the neighbor drilling a well and you sharing it

$200 won't break the bank and I am looking into iron filters prior to installation of the softener.

It sounds like we're all done here...no one is commenting on the Terminox. Feel free to close this thead if you'd like.

Definitely look into iron filtering ahead of the softener. The "Terminox" name points towards a particular vendor/manufacturer(?) of equipment, and without knowing what is involved with the Terminox equipment, it's hard to compare. The chlorination method would deal with any IRB you have, but you then add filtration to deal with the results of the chlorinating. Kind of difficult to see this all fixed, on a permanent basis, for less than a grand.

You can ask these guys about wells and pumps.
Right now, they are conferring on a well problem.
The one on the right, is thinking the well is too shallow, but thinking, without tools it's going to be a bugger to make it deeper.

Hey, what's the deal with the image transloader? Failure message every time.