Wiring a Spa. Do I use #8 awg or 6/3 romex slimpull ?

Speedy Petey · Nov 2, 2007

I can only assume this would work.
The tub did not come with one? Usually they come with the panel with the GFI breakers already installed.

Speedy Petey · Nov 2, 2007

I was asked a question via PM from another member. With permission I'm re-posting it here:

Why can't you use more than 6' of the liquidtite? I got about 12' to go from the GFCI to the tub and was planning on using flex all the way (4x #6, ground included).

The answer is simply it is a code restriction.
NEC reference 680.42(A)(1)

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Nail Bender · Nov 2, 2007

Speedy Petey said:
I can only assume this would work.
The tub did not come with one? Usually they come with the panel with the GFI breakers already installed.

No it did not. This is a used spa handed down to me by a friend.
I will try and find out the spec on it.

Nail Bender · Nov 2, 2007

Speedy Petey said:
I was asked a question via PM from another member. With permission I'm re-posting it here:

The answer is simply it is a code restriction.
NEC reference 680.42(A)(1)

I should be ok with the six feet rule. It might end up between 5 -6 feet anyway.

Alectrician · Nov 2, 2007

nail bender said:
I found this inexpensive Rainproof 2-4 circuit nonmetallic(plastic) 125amp box for $18. Any advice on this?

WTH? I have never seen a plastic panel.

As long as it's an outdoor panel and has your gfci breakers in it you are good.

frenchelectrican · Nov 2, 2007

Alectrician said:
WTH? I have never seen a plastic panel.

As long as it's an outdoor panel and has your gfci breakers in it you are good.

yeah i did see few of them but myself i am not a strong fan with plastic box.

BTW Nailbender., with that box you got there one thing you have to watch out is the room to bend the wire with #6's it might get pretty tight in few spots.

If i know what that box brand name i can able tell ya the fastest and safest route to land the wires.

and if you going to run the GFCI on the plastic box make sure you bring out netural wire but ground wire have to be insluated green wire [ once it get outside of building ].

Merci, Marc

RickD7 · Nov 3, 2007

Speedy Petey said:
I was asked a question via PM from another member. With permission I'm re-posting it here:

The answer is simply it is a code restriction.
NEC reference 680.42(A)(1)

Thanks Speedy Petey,

So solid plastic pipe buried all the way (18 in., right?). Will a 1" pipe be ok for four #6 wires in regards to heat dissipation?

Bob NH · Nov 3, 2007

You can't run the NM wires outside in conduit of any kind. You will have to use THWN or some other kind of wire that is rated for wet locations. You will usually find that wire rated for THHN also rated as THWN.

The wire you need is #6 for the hot conductors (#8 will actually handle 50 Amps), and #8 for the white and ground. Those will fit in a 3/4" rigid or flex conduit. You may need the 1" if they are all #6.

The load calculations would let you run smaller wires (THWN) but the inspector on a recent project that I did required the larger wires.

Rigid PVC is easy to run and it is easy to pull if you use lubricant. You can connect flex to the end using a adapters and pull the wire through both at once.

Alectrician · Nov 3, 2007

I found this inexpensive Rainproof 2-4 circuit nonmetallic(plastic) 125amp box for $18. Any advice on this?

Are the 2/30 and 2/20 GE GFCI breakers you need available? How much??

Nail Bender · Nov 3, 2007

Bob NH said:
You can't run the NM wires outside in conduit of any kind. You will have to use THWN or some other kind of wire that is rated for wet locations. You will usually find that wire rated for THHN also rated as THWN.

The wire you need is #6 for the hot conductors (#8 will actually handle 50 Amps), and #8 for the white and ground. Those will fit in a 3/4" rigid or flex conduit. You may need the 1" if they are all #6.

The load calculations would let you run smaller wires (THWN) but the inspector on a recent project that I did required the larger wires.

Rigid PVC is easy to run and it is easy to pull if you use lubricant. You can connect flex to the end using a adapters and pull the wire through both at once.

Bob, If I run nm thru the attic and out the soffit down 5 feet to a sub panel, Do I still need to run THWN wire for the exterior 5 feet pre-sub portion?
If so where will I splice down to Thwn?
I know post sub panel I will have to run THWN to the circuit board.

Nail Bender · Nov 3, 2007

Alectrician said:
Are the 2/30 and 2/20 GE GFCI breakers you need available? How much??

I just assumed they would be available but never checked on that yet, not to mention the price. I usually never have trouble locating things here in the city . I'll let you know tommorow.

Bob NH · Nov 3, 2007

nail bender said:
Bob, If I run nm thru the attic and out the soffit down 5 feet to a sub panel, Do I still need to run THWN wire for the exterior 5 feet pre-sub portion?
If so where will I splice down to Thwn?
I know post sub panel I will have to run THWN to the circuit board.

I was remarking relative to the comment by RickD7 about burying the conduit 18", without noticing that it wasn't you.

My comment about not using NM is related to the requirement that NM can't be used in any location that is classified as "wet" by the code.

If you have to change wire types you would have to splice it in a box somewhere. I don't believe that a conduit fitting has enough volume to meet the code requirements for a junction box.

Nail Bender · Nov 3, 2007

Bob NH said:
I was remarking relative to the comment by RickD7 about burying the conduit 18", without noticing that it wasn't you.

My comment about not using NM is related to the requirement that NM can't be used in any location that is classified as "wet" by the code.

If you have to change wire types you would have to splice it in a box somewhere. I don't believe that a conduit fitting has enough volume to meet the code requirements for a junction box.

Oh ok ,I was just planning on taking nm out of structure and run it the 5' in conduit to panel.

Alectrician · Nov 4, 2007

I was just planning on taking nm out of structure and run it the 5' in conduit to panel

You can sleeve that portion of the NM. It is an exception somewhere in the code (anybody???). It is basically the same thing they do for rooftop AC units.

KD · Nov 4, 2007

3/4 sealtight or PVC 40 will take 4 #6 THHN wires. You could strip the sheathing and run the 6-3wG in 3/4 conduit.

Nail Bender · Nov 4, 2007

Ok
I like you guys to look at this and give me your expert opinions.
The diagram shows the neutral and ground on different bars. If you look at the sub I have here, there is only one bar. I bought a spare bar to install but I would like to consult with you all first. Let me know what you all think.

JWelectric · Nov 4, 2007

nail bender said:
Oh ok ,I was just planning on taking nm out of structure and run it the 5' in conduit to panel.

This is a code violation

ked said:
3/4 sealtight or PVC 40 will take 4 #6 THHN wires. You could strip the sheathing and run the 6-3wG in 3/4 conduit.

This is a worse code violation.
310.8(C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall be
(1) Moisture-impervious metal-sheathed;
(2) Types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THHW-2, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW; or
(3) Of a type listed for use in wet locations.

The flex in the PVC is a code violation

Alectrician · Nov 4, 2007

Can you cite the violation?

I am SURE you are allowed to sleeve NM. It is done every day on roof top AC units and to protect short pieces go to eave lights etc.

Tell me you didn't run that pvc down and loop it into the bottom? That SCREAMS homo(wner) !!

It works and everything but it is u g l y.

If you don't have a hole saw at LEAST use an LB/chase nipple into the side.

I don't know if I WANT to see it exiting from the gable/eave

JWelectric · Nov 5, 2007

Alectrician said:
Can you cite the violation?

334.12 But you will need a code book to read it

Nail Bender · Nov 5, 2007

Alectrician said:
Can you cite the violation?

I am SURE you are allowed to sleeve NM. It is done every day on roof top AC units and to protect short pieces go to eave lights etc.

Tell me you didn't run that pvc down and loop it into the bottom? That SCREAMS homo(wner) !! It works and everything but it is u g l y.

If you don't have a hole saw at LEAST use an LB/chase nipple into the side.

I don't know if I WANT to see it exiting from the gable/eave

Yea I don't have a hole saw .What is a LB/Chase nipple and what does it look like?

As far as the pvc/flex joint. What is a better way of getting it under the sub or is there an adpter to fit it in the main on top that is appx. 2 1/2" wide?
Yea I wouldn't want the work to be obvious that a "homo(wner)" did it himself. : )
by the way the pvc goes thru the eave where it meets the wall.

Wiring a Spa. Do I use #8 awg or 6/3 romex slimpull ?

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