Replacing toilet flange

Im doing some prep work for a new floor in the bathroom and when I ripped the toilet out, I noticed the flange had a corner broken off of it. Originally, I was just going to put a flange spacer to accommodate for the new floor, but with the broken one, I want to replace it with a new one. Here is the problem.
Since the house is a good 80 years old, the flange is waxed/glued or otherwise now a permanent part of the existing drain pipe. Also, it appears to sit on the outside of the pipe while all new flanges (pvc) that I saw down at the local hardware store seem to sit within the existing pipe secured with a rubber gasket.
There doesnt seem to be any way to get the old flange off of the existing pipe other than going into the basement and chopping the waste pipe in half and replacing with a new PVC extension.
Should I:

PVC replacement flange with rubber gasket which sits inside existing pipe).

Put it right on top of the existing, broken flange to act as a spacer for the new floor. Since it has a rubber gasket, it should seal on the inside of the pipe while creating a spacer for the new floor

-= OR =-

2) Have at it with a sawzall. Cut out old pipe, replace with section of 3" PVC with coupler to existing drain line and raise to proper height for new floor

Personally, if advisable, I would prefer route #1. However, not sure if this is something that is recommended

That flange appears to be a "spin 'n seal" (or is it "twist 'n seal"?). I've used those to replace broken flanges but not to extend a waste pipe and flange. You might have some luck with a sawzall... a heck of alot of sawing. I would find or rent a snap cutter if I were to opt for cutting the cast iron. I've seen people use a saw with an abrasive blade (a.k.a. cuttoff saw, or rescue saw). One problem with cast iron is that I'm not always lucky and have had it to crack or have odd chunks break out of the end where the snap cutters (chain cutter) was placed. You can bet that if anything is going to go wrong it will be an old pipe that can really mess up your day. If you can get a clean cut/break then use a no hub coupling and add the PVC. You're fortunate to have access. HOWEVER... the big question is wheather or not you're going to get a good seal if you use the "spin 'n seal" flange. If it fits and the gasket is seated good in the pipe then I'd probably go ahead with that much easier option...as long as it is a good fit and good seal. Use some good brass or stainless screws to anchor to floor.... anyone who wants to correct me on this...PLEASE DO... I don't know if any reg's or codes apply to this or not.

Luken...I have recently done exactly what you are going through now. I removed an old cast iron flange and replaced it with a similar new flange like you have except my new flange is cast iron with the rubber gasket that fits on the inside of the cast iron waste pipe. It works just fine.

I am replying to your post to let you know you should be able to easily remove the old flange just like I did after getting advice from this forum.
I used a hand drill to drill small holes all around the old flange where it was leaded in to place around the waste pipe. After I drilled a lot of small holes all around the flange eventually I was able to use a small pry bar and "pop" the old flange off. Worked like a charm. Then I used a rubber mallet to tap my new cast iron flange into the waste pipe. DONE.......

Incidentally....when I installed the new toilet I used a "waxless" ring. Totally awesome invention.

Speedy

Speedwrench... thanks for the post... I avoid cast iron whenever possible... PVC has spoiled alot of us.

Luken....another thought came to mind about your PVC flange. That flange you have pictured is a 4x3 flange with a 3" vertical drop.
My replacement flange was 4x2.
Make sure the 3" drop will fit in your application. My flange goes immediately into an elbow and I don't think a 4x3 flange would have fit because the 3" drop would have been too long and would have hit the turn in the elbow.

Incidentally, I have found at least in my area that Lowes has a much better selection of toilet plumbing parts then does H.Depot.

Good Luck

Speed... I agree... Homer has dropped the ball in the plumbing department at all their stores I've been in. Lowe's seems to have everything I need for repairs. I almost never go to the big plumbing wholesalers...if I do it's usually for large metal pipe or black iron for compressed air or gas lines.

Hey Randy...Yeah, I've found that Lowes and Homey Depot both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Around here Lowes has a great display of plumbing parts up on their wall above the parts and Homey Depot has a somewhat embarrassing few shelves of toilet plumbing as if it is an after-thouight.
But I have also noticed Homey has a Bath section with terrific displays of toilets, showers, sinks, vanitys, etc. and the Bath section at Lowes is pretty pathetic.

Speedy

Thanks for the kind work guys. I took a wire brush attachement for my drill and removed some of the...umm...old "residue" and rust from the existing waste pipe and the PVC attachement I have does fit well inside of the existing pipe. I may forgo the removal of the current flange and use one of those stainless steel fix-a-rings then my flange insert. I did a dry fit yesterday and it fit nice and snug. I will probably also run a bead or three of silicon between the rubber gasket and the existing pipe to get a good seal. The final should be

new flange
SS fixer ring
current

and set like this it is almost the exact height for the new floor/backerboard


If I so choose to do the drill out route, how hard is the existing lead sealant to drill in to; and how many drill bits should I anticipate running through? It looks to be ~1/8" and those bits are mighty brittle

Luken8r said:

If I so choose to do the drill out route, how hard is the existing lead sealant to drill in to; and how many drill bits should I anticipate running through? It looks to be ~1/8" and those bits are mighty brittle

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Luken...The flange I drilled out was "very" easy to do. The lead posed no difficulty to drill through. Took maybe 10 minutes and only needed one drill bit. No harm to the drill bit at all.

The lead is relatively soft and can probably be punched thru if you do break a bit. I usually am able to pry it out with something like a screwdriver or anything I can work up under it.

Luken... can use silicone if you want... it should not be necessary and you might do just as well to use soap.

Speed... I just put about 150 ft of PVC sewer and drain pipes in the ground before I pour my slab for the house I'm building. Lowe's beat the wholesalers by at least 30%... I got 3 bids before pricing Lowe's. I hate the big giants stomping out the little guys...but with such a price difference how can I go to the real plumbing stores????

Randyj said:

Speed... I just put about 150 ft of PVC sewer and drain pipes in the ground before I pour my slab for the house I'm building. Lowe's beat the wholesalers by at least 30%... I got 3 bids before pricing Lowe's. I hate the big giants stomping out the little guys...but with such a price difference how can I go to the real plumbing stores????

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Wow...I didn't know their prices could be so competitive...thanks for the heads up...

Yep... if I'm gonna spend much money I'm gonna shop. I buy paint at Wal-Mart because it's the only place I can go at 2 a.m. if I run out in the middle of a job. I now live 35 miles from one Lowe's and 50 miles from another. It's about 20 more miles to a decent supply house... so... lots of times I'm buying at night and installing or repairing during the day... supply houses aren't open when I'm normally available to shop.... so, I'm in Lowe's alot... since I moved Homer is just too far away.

I found this thread with a Google search and it's kind of close to what I'm wondering about so.... here goes:

I'm retiling my bathroom. I got the sink and toilet up, but when I looked at the tolet flange, it looks pretty rusted out. The house is about 20 years hold, on a concrete slab. The drain is PVC.

I noticed there is an offset in the drain (between the drain line and the toilet ring.

So my questions are, can I replace the metal ring without messing with the PVC, or if I have to replace the PVC, am I going to be able to find an offset mount for it? Thanks in advance.

They make repair rings you could use to reinforce that old one. If you want to replace it, I think you'd need to crack some concrete. While you were at it, you might move it so you didn't have to use an offset flange.

Can I get one of those replacement rings at the big box places like Lowes?

I'm pretty sure I've seen them there...you could try an on-line search first to save you a trip.

I would recommend using one of these #BFR7900 replacement rings from Raven Products. The big box version is chrome plated steel vs. stainless steel from Raven Products.



You remove the whole old ring and put this 2pc. stainless steel ring on in its place. It clamps the pipe and everything, just like the original except its stainless. All it needs is a good floor to bolt to! It should be secured down with #12 brass or, stainless steel bolts. Use extension rings to get the level of the top about 1/4" above the finished floor. Use shims under the toilet as they tile floors are never flat.

Redwood said:

All it needs is a good floor to bolt to!

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Can't bolt to the floor; it's concrete.

Can't bolt to the floor; it's concrete.

You can drill it and use ancors or use tapcom screws. It can be done.

I usually use Tapcon screws myself!