Installing a basement toilet in a difficult, old house . .

I have a VERY small house and am finishing the basement. Every inch is precious. My house has one plumbing stack and have to navigate many posts/beams There is no existing rough-in for a bathroom. I am attaching two pictures. My available space is about 3 by six feet with the 'stack' cutting in slightly in the middle of the six foot span.




Behind the stack is a rather steep staircase. My main concern is sewer/vent. A couple questions:

1) Can I hook into this stack for sewage and vent without cutting cement?
2) Would it be possible to install the cheviot wall-mount toilet shown here:

http://www.cheviotproducts.com/toilets/d-wallhung.html
Notice the amazingly small footprint on this wall-mount toilet.

'between' the 6x6 (blue) post and the plumbing stack? There is 22 inches available. I would knock back the bathroom wall about six inches where the toilet would go. (to get a little leg room in the 3' wide space)

3) Am I breaking any rules trying to put a bathroom in a space this small? If it matters, this house's only other bathroom in in the second story in a space not much larger with a sloped roof. (somehow I shoehorned in a shower)

4) Does that gasket on the stack (close-up picture) help me any? I have no idea what its function is.

My other option is putting it in a 6 x 6 space in the far corner of the basement about 20 feet away from this stack.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide this plumbing rookie. Right now I am in the planning stage and am trying to figure out if a bathroom is in the cards given our limited budget.

I hate to rain on your parade, but this is not a DIY project for a total novice. The problems you describe may be solved, but it will take an experienced plumber to do it. My best advice to you is to contact one and have him evaluate the job, perhaps find a better way to do it, and to give you an estimate. The silver cover appears to be the cleanout although it's a bit different kind of cover than I have seen.

Wall-mount WC is a good solution

A wall-mount toilet is a good solution, and other than a wall-mount, the only other option I can think of today is the floor-tank-pumped-up-and-out, which also works well. I have seen it in operation, in a house I helped renovate. The holding tank makes a little platform under any old regular toilet, adn it has an ergonomic advantage since it lets long-legs and short legs both have a comfortable place to plant their feet on while being seated on the throne.

First things first: you need to "create" a vent - i don't know the right term to use, but i think you get the idea. You cannot use a dirty drain coming from above as a source of vent air.

The Cheviot is a good size for you. 22". What is its approx. price range? Catalano, Flaminia and Duravit also make small footprint wall-mount WC that connect onto the same in-wall carrier I see on the Cheviot web site. It's a Geberit in-wall frame, one of several possible frames. Since the frame itself takes up space and has its "footprint" I'll mention a few more: Missal makes an even smaller frame with a triangular footprint which lets your toilet be oriented at 45 degrees from each wall of a corner, and that really saves space. Caroma has a flatter frame that fits into a slimmer wall. A Turkish company with a long name that I can't remember off-hand is the third major option in North America, in terms of space-saving wall-hung toilets.

John, after you draw out your space accurately down to the quarter inch, post it here. It'll help.

Plan your vent. Can you bring in a new vent from the outside or do you need to go up through the house to the roof first? I do not know the rules for new vents.

David

Will post more detailed plans

Thanks for the feedback. I just realized you don't have to vent using the stack and can go outside out the side wall. I am wondering if the smell will be bad.

I will post my plans tonight - should give you a better idea of my constraints. It is really hard to describe space issues w/o a picture.

John

johnh said:

Thanks for the feedback. I just realized you don't have to vent using the stack and can go outside out the side wall. I am wondering if the smell will be bad.

John

Click to expand...

I'm not a plumber, but that doesn't sound like it's up to code...

Here is the schematic

I took the photos from the top looking down the picture. The small grey rectangles are cemented in 6" wood beams. the main stack (grey circle) is towards the bottom. I penciled in yellow walls to give an idea of what I'm thinking.

the toilet is penciled in between the blue post and the main stack.

My design at this point is based on a perceived 'easier install' if I have the bathroom very near the stack. If that provides no benefit, I would probably go the route of putting it in the upper right-hand corner (subject to cost).

good layout.

john
looks like a good layout to me.

to the left of the toilet tank is a little wall that turns at 90 degrees; here is where i would think it is possible to make two 45 degree turns instead of one ninety. then the stack can be partially surrounded by corner studs. It will give you more elbow room when seated on the throne. As long as you execute the corners well, it'll look good.

i'm impressed. two pocket doors. wow! what a space saver.

just don't plan to put any light switches in those walls.

david

toilet

With that arrangement forget about a wall hung toilet. If it cannot be mouned directly to the waste stack, the amount of room required for its piping would "eat up" your space very quickly. You are also violating one of the cardinal rules of plumbing by not having the toilet centered 15" from the wall. In this case it will work, although you might have to lean forward to keep from bumping into the left hand wall.

Thanks for the pointers

You're right about the switches - I think one pocket door should suffice. I'm going to have a plumber come in tomorrow to review and give me a quote for roughing something in and making sure I am in compliance to local codes.

I'm going to scratch the idea of a side vent.

elbow room: 15" clearance each side

John

I get the impression you are going to make it fit, and you will build the walls in the right shape to make it meet code too.

To meet minimum code requirements, should you seek to do so, you must have a 15" space when measured from the center line of the toilet seat sideways to the first obstacle / wall. That makes 30" total width, for a body, and for elbows and arms in particular.

Your local municipal employee or regional code inspector is the person to consult in advance; s/he decides about unusual conditions. Not a plumber who you hire; some will be fussy, some will be slack, and none can give a guarantee that the design as you propose to build will meet the inspector's approval. Plumbers don't build the walls; they can decline to work on your job and many will decline if they feel you'll hold them (co-)responsible for the final product meeting the inspector's approval.

I have fit these Geberit wall-hung carrier frames into tight space and I know how the pipes can be turned, too, so I hope to be able to comment on that too. See the Geberit web site and pdf files. The carrier is less than 5" x 19" in real life. Its discharge pipe can be turned (swiveled) to go horizontally over to your stack, and that option is part of the design. Geberit tech support phone service can confirm this.

I hope to be helpful to you and everyone. I'm not a plumber. If I get a private Message from someone who has a high level of authority, asking me to stay away from this topic, I will back off. I do encourage you to keep studying how to fit a wall-hung toilet into the space that you have. I know I would. I believe it will work and very well too.

I wonder if you don't need a vent for a toilet near a stack. Check that, with plumbing experts. I saw no sink in your diagram. A lone toilet, on a "waste arm" (keyword) is unvented for a few feet. If it needs a vent before the stack, you'll find out here pretty soon, that it does, and maybe even how to do it. And the municipal inspector will tell you too.

david