sticking submersible pump

[rainrain]

I have a 165 ft. well lined with perf. PVC, and was lowering a new submersible pump into it when somewhere around 130ft. it has become stuck from moving any further down. I navigated previous "sticking points" without too much trouble, but now it feels fairly challenging to go any further. So one question is -- what do I do?

The second question is that now when I try to pull it back up, it seems to be under some kind of suction/resistance that takes two of us to free it initially -- after that it pulls up fine, but if lowered down to the same limit, does the same thing again. I have a torque arrestor on it and wonder if this could be the cause -- maybe it has come loose -- anyone have this experience before?

I am looking for suggestions before pulling it back up out of the well to inspect it. I have test run it down in the well and it works fine -- I would like to lower it down another 20 feet or so to take advantage of the depth -- we are in a low-flow situation and every little bit helps.

Any help is appreciated...

[Raucina]

I would not use the torque arrestor. I do not think they work, and cause trouble like your own. I just had to pull a pump back up where the standoffs caught on the casing joint lip. Cutting them smaller and some jostling when lowering got it down.

If you bought pvc perforated pipe off the shelf, likely its made for septic and drain use and is not rated for drinking water. I buy low pressure pvc rated for drinking and slot it with a chop saw or band saw in the water zone only.You can get some nasty chemicals out of pvc without a NSF rating.

[rainrain]

Thanks for the input on the torque arrestor -- it seems like folks who actually work on pumps/wells have a very different view on them from those who sell them.

Also -- thanks for the heads-up on the pipe -- it was perfed using a chop saw and is drinking water grade.

Lastly -- I have also used the plastic things folks call "spiders" on the drop line to keep the pump centered and the wire away from the edges. What is your thought on these (every 10 ft. or so) as opposed to the torque arrestor? Do you feel that they could really be helpful, or are they potential hazards as the torque arrestors seem to be?

[Raucina]

I like the standoffs or spiders but the design could be much improved. In very deep wells the holes are not straight. If the well is lined with pvc all the way I use few if any. zip tie the wires to the Poly if using that.

[rainrain]

Thanks for your help, I will pull the pump and make some modifications...

[rainrain]

thanks for the input. Regarding "excessive cycling", our water flow is such that we need the pump to come on every 4-5 hours to have enough flow. Is this "excessive" in your use of the word, and if so, does that change your advice in this situation.

Also, regarding taping and getting the slack out of the wire, I had heard that leaving a little slack in was a good idea as the plastic drop pipe will actually stretch over time and if the wire was too taut that it could stretch, weaken and actually break the wire.

Thoughts?

[Raucina]

"Eliminate the excess cycling on and off by using a Cycle Stop Valve, and you won't need arresters and spiders to keep from wearing out the wire."

Pump running once in 5 hours you can forget about a runtime extension valve.

You dont need a torque arrestor because they dont seem to work. You do need the spiders or standoffs because even the glorified valve mentioned certainly lets the pump shut on and off [we hope] and slap against the walls. I didnt think it possible but now we have a new claim that the CSV eliminates spiders!

Under any conditions, holes in the ground are rarely straight and so you need them.

Finally, Use 3m #33 tape if you like - its really amazing stuff. I usually use both, the ties lightly for a quick connection and then the #33 for closer tying. Dont use the cheap imported tape.

leave some slack, but usually it comes naturally. Wide nylon ties of top quality cut off long also act as spiders all along the pipe string

[speedbump]

I'm curious why the pump is getting stuck. If it's not the torque arrestors (which I don't like at all) then you have a problem with the pipe itself or there is something in the hole, like sand. From what you are saying about the pump stopping then getting stuck, it sounds like it is settling into wet sand. They you said you ran it and all was ok. If you have sand, all would not be OK.

If there is no problem with sand, I could recommend a 3" submersible which should fit into a 4" hole with no problem. Of course a 4" should fit as well.

A good grade electrical (vinyl) tape every 20' with the wire pulled tight is how I have done several thousands of installs and have never had a problem with scuffed wire.

bob...

[djl4392]

I have a similar prolem only I am trying to pull an old submersible pump out. I don't know the depth of the well but I suspect it is not to deep as I am able to start pulling the the whole works easily by myself. I encountered a few spots were it seemed to drag a bit, but by working it up and down was able to lift it 30' or so. Then it hit a spot I cannot seem to get it past. In fact it seems if I pull it to hard into that spot it gets stuck rather well. I am afraid to jam it to hard trying to get it past this, but I don't know how hard I should pull. There is no rope or cable just 1 1/4" black poly and the three wire electrical cable. Any suggestions on how to get it the rest of the way out with out breaking something off while the pump is still down in the hole?

[speedbump]

Be glad there is no rope, cable, torque arrestors or spiders. Their just another thing to break and get wedged between the pump and casing. If the PVC is 160 psi you should be able to pull several thousands of pounds without hurting it. This stuff is tougher than it looks. I do not mean to say that pulling will get it out, as juking is the best thing. Jerk up then down many times, this will break away the mineral that may be hanging it up. If you get it stuck pulling up, and can't get it to go down anymore, your pretty much screwed. So don't stick it. Once stuck, pulling hard is the only thing left to do unless you go down beside the poly with steel pipe and bang on the top of the pump to knock it back down.

If you do get it out, stop by my website and get a three inch pump that will easily go down and up next time.

bob...