copper to old lead water line

**Herky** · 09-13-2006, 07:12 PM

I am a newbie.

I called the Water Co. to change the meter. The lead line on the street side of the meter is leaking quite badly. they won't change it till I fix the leak.
How can I couple copper tubing to the old lead line without digging up the feed from the street?

Thank you,
Herky

**Gary Swart** · 09-13-2006, 08:28 PM

What you're asking doesn't make sense. You say the old galvanized line is leaking then you ask how to connect copper pipe to it??? It may be possible to have a new line installed without digging up the entire yard, but that has to be done by a professional qualified and equipped to do this. I think this is the approach you should at least explore. Forget the old galvanized line, it's toast.

**Herky** · 09-13-2006, 09:09 PM

Gary
The incoming line from the street is lead (Pb). It comes under a stone foundation into a pit that contains the water meter. There is a shutoff valve. The leak is between the valve and the meter. I would like to cut off the lead pipe and connect copper to it. The copper line would now connect to the meter. How can I make this connection?

Herky

**Herky** · 09-13-2006, 09:23 PM

Gary
The incoming line from the street is lead (Pb). It comes under a stone foundation into a pit that contains the water meter. There is a shutoff valve. The leak is between the valve and the meter. I would like to cut off the lead pipe and connect copper to it. The copper line would now connect to the meter. How can I make this connection?

Herky

**Winslow** · 09-14-2006, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Herky

Gary
The incoming line from the street is lead (Pb). It comes under a stone foundation into a pit that contains the water meter. There is a shutoff valve. The leak is between the valve and the meter. I would like to cut off the lead pipe and connect copper to it. The copper line would now connect to the meter. How can I make this connection?

Herky

1. If this is a potable water line then there is no way it can be lead (Pb)

2. If you are connecting to the meter itself then you can usually use a
female adapter.

**Cass** · 09-14-2006, 04:12 AM

If you do have a lead line I would recomend replacing the line. How old is your house?

Did the water company tell you it was lead?

I have only ever dealt with 1 lead line when I was new in the trade and it was coupled on to but the coupling failed and the line ended up being replaced.

Lead in water is not very bad. The line should be calcified on the inside and should not be leaching into the water but I would not take any chances and would replace it.

hj · 09-14-2006, 05:46 AM

You must have a small water company, because all the ones I have ever worked with maintain their line ahead of the meter. Since the leaking water does not go through the meter no one pays for it, except for the utility that has to deliver it to the leak, so it is to their benefit, and no one elses, to fix the leak. The only good way for an amateur to connect anything to a lead pipe is with a flanged/compression joint and even that takes some knowledge to make a proper connection.

**Cass** · 09-14-2006, 05:56 AM

Hj,
Out here the water companys are responsible to the meter or in the case the meter is in the basement their responsibility is to the curb stop. They will shut off water at the curb stop if they find a leak beyond it but before the basement meter.

**plumber1** · 09-14-2006, 06:54 AM

Sounds like you should replace the line to the street.......

Rancher · 09-14-2006, 07:21 AM

Normally the water company owns everthing up to the water meter, and won't let you touch it, even to turn off the valve on their side of the meter if you have a flood on your side. Tell them you are going to disconnect the meter and sell it on E-bay, that should get their attention.

Rancher

**dubldare** · 09-14-2006, 05:05 PM

I have seen hundreds of lead water services, and all but one was in St. Paul.

Most of these services dated back to the late 1800's up to the late 1930's. Most of the time the meters were in a pit, sometimes sharing the pit with the building cleanout, eek. All water service piping within the property line is the property owner's resposibility, the city's responsibility ends at the curb stop on the boulivard, although the meter is the city's property.

Up until about 5 years ago, if a street side shut-off required replacement in such a senario, the exisiting lead service could be maintained, yet the meter and shut-off would have to be brought above floor level. In these cases, a Ford (pack joint by flare) fitting would be used to tie into the lead and soft copper up to the street side valve.

When the city implemented a code compliance program for all properties sold, these types of repairs continued until the city began enforcing an ordinance which roughly states 'any service piping beyond 30 years in age is considered to be at the end of it's service life. If repairs are necessary, such piping shall be replaced.'

Over the years, water purveyors have taken (EPA mandated) steps to make the water they supply less corrosive, to help minimize lead from leaching.

Old habits die hard though. Even in more modern (1940-'70's) houses with meters above the floor and copper services, it was very common to find a wiped joint between the copper and threaded brass ferrule prior to the street side valve.

**Herky** · 09-14-2006, 07:39 PM

The house belongs to my 91 year old, widowed, mother. She is in the nursing home on state assistance. There is no money to pay for a repair such as completely replacing the line. The house was built in the 1890's and from what I can see the line is lead going beneath the foundation I assume it is lead to the curb stop. The line is connected to the meter by a threaded wiped joint. I will call a plumber to see if a mechanical connection is advisable to save the expense of replacement.

Thank you for the information about the Ford fitting. Maybe the guys who replace the meter will do so if they see that the leak is fixed, and I tell them of my mother's circumstances.