Cement shower without tiles

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Andrew Camacho

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I am building a shower in my studio loft. Trying to save every penny, I would like to get around using tiles. Most comercial pre fab units are small and costly. I would like mine to be about 5'X5'. I've framed it with metal studs. There already exists a floor drain in the concreat floor that I will use as the drain. Can I cement my shower floor, raked 4" to the drain with a lip edge at the walls, and then paint the cement with waterproof paint?
Can i use waterproof paint for the walls on top of aqua board or some other water resistant sheet rock. Rockboard is the usual method, when tiling, but twice as expensive. Is there an alternative? Swiming pools are made of concreat and painted over, Why cant I do this with my shower? It only has to last for about 5 years max.
 

Jadnashua

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Not a great idea. You'd need a new clamping drain to put in a liner and preslope.Concrete is not waterproof, just not damaged by water. If you used concrete, there'd by no good way to keep water, body oils, soap scum, etc. to soak in. If you really want to stay cheap, get a circular shower rod, and a curtain, put a rainhead shower head coming straight down and a set of valves. Don't let the inspector see it, and replace it all when you decide to do it properly.
 

Verdeboy

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Every campground I've ever camped in has concrete showers, so it's definitely do-able. The trailer I'm renting now has 1/4" plywood with some flat paint on it all around the shower, and incredibly, there's no mildew, and it's holding up okay.

If you're gonna go the cheap route, I'd recommend wood instead of sheetrock and covering it with tub surround (check Habitat for Humanity Re-store for leftover and discontinued tub surround and plywood) or use polyurethane floor paint. It's the strongest and most waterproof paint I know of. Habitat may even have a pre-fab unit for dirt cheap.
 
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Cass

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If it's your house you can do what you like. It's not a great selling point but it may work.
 

Andrew Camacho

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Thanks for the saport. it seems most agree that I need a beter drain and some sort of pan. I'm off to check out wrubber liners as a pan. any other sagestions welcomed.
 

Geniescience

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i like these ideas being kicked around.

Look at RedGard, a Liquid Waterproofing membrane sold for showers and even for steam showers too. It dries rubbery. Call the manufacturer, Custom Building Products, to see what you can put on top that is like concrete.

Look at Noble Company drains. They are not expensive. They even have an 8" extender flange to give you more surface area to glue the membrane onto. Call them too.

On the other hand, you already have a floor drain. What is wrong with it?

I have seen it written in Plumbing Code books that ground-floor showers in concrete slabs do not need any special waterproofing, in residential buildings.

Hope this helps you, Andrew.
david
 
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Geniescience

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Also, Noble Company makes NobleSeal, a flexible membrane. They might be able to give you ideass about how to put cement on top.

Tiles can be low-cost and effective too.

Whatever you do, Andrew, it is important to build a slope so that water naturally wants to go into the drain.

A floor drain on a flat floor is only an emergency drain, and water won't naturally flow into it at any rate worth speaking of. You will still have to push the water into it. That won't work with a daily shower. Too much moisture hanging around on the flat floor. Even the plumbing code says so.

The slope has to be 2% or more, i.e. going up a quarter inch per foot, each foot from the drain. Then you need a shower curb too. Two inches in height, or more.

david
 
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Prashster

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If yr looking for a 5-yr solution you could concrete the thing and then paint it with garage floor epoxy paint. You can even use the rubber flecks to make the floor non-slip.

You still might want to use a one-piece drain from Schluter or Noble, and make a sloped floor.

Know, though, that you'll be creating future demo work for yr next occupant. Alternatively, you might consider doing it right from now. With the Kerdi method (schluter systems) you can make an attractive and lasting shower for about $400-500 - tiles and all. Basic tiles are very inexpensive, and the job is pretty easy and wicked fun (check out john bridge if yr insterested).

Rambling tangent: Has anyone else done a kerdi shower? I gotta say, I've tackled a bunch of DIY project before, but doing a shower has by far been the coolest and most rewarding. That Kerdi system is amazing and fun.
 
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Geniescience

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prashterman;

i have done two Kerdi and one Wedi shower.

Kerdi is a top-layer going on top of the structure you build. Wedi is both structure and a top-layer waterproofing. Wedi foam board allows you to build awesome shapes easily. Like in your tub podium and surround, and niches nooks and crannies.

David
 

Mikey

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I'm just finishing up the drywall for a double Kerdi shower, in the planning for a year or two. Hope to have it completed in the next few months -- one month to spend reading all the related John Bridge threads...:D
 

Andrew Camacho

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I'm going to use a flanged drain with weep holes under a sloped floorcovered with rubber. The kerdi drain is $80, so I found anoter one for $16. The rubber comes 4'X5' and my shower will be 5'X5', which means two pieces and glue for about $90 and lots left over I'm sure.
Should I paint my cement floor with oil or latex paint sealer. I was going to go with a heavey duty oil boat paint, but some one told me latex was the better way to go because cement is waterbased and the paint will bond better. I thought the opposite, exactly because cement is water based and so is a shower.
Also how qiuckly can I paint my cement floof after. Curing time goes on forever and 28 days is some sort of cement standard. I was going to give it a couple of days, but I know feal I should wait at least one weak, 7 days. Any thoughts from this helpfull gang here?
Creative and cheep, Andrew.
 

Andrew Camacho

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Oh, also the red guard cost a small fortune so I aint going with that! I'll take some pictures to show you my final process and let you all have a good laugh at my meyhods.
Andrew
 

Verdeboy

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I'd paint the floor and the walls with a good polyurethane floor paint. That stuff is tough as nails and waterproof (or at least very water resistant).

I found this on the web in regards to a similar question about curing:



"Hopefully your concrete will never cure....
The ideal concrete will take forever to cure...as in the slower it cures the
better, this is why you try and keep it wet on top for a while, this is why
you see additives to make the concrete "wetter"....I think your querry is
really "how long before I can climb/extend it" !!! That I cannot answer but
I ber if you pour it on one weekend and come back a week later on the next
weekend you will be a-ok......"

"My building inspector told me wait three days before removing the forms;
full cure is about 3 weeks...
"
 
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Geniescience

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Cover the curb with the rubber too. Good decision to use rubber. This is what ALL the experts used (and still use) before the orange Kerdi membrane took over the JohnBridge guys.
Andrew Camacho said:
I'm going to use a flanged drain with weep holes under a sloped floorcovered with rubber....Andrew.
You mentioned you'll have a sloped floor. Congratulations:)


This next part I didn't understand. Where are you intending to paint your floor? Somewhere not in the shower? Or, under the CPE membrane? I don't get it. And why are you in a rush to paint it? If this is a new slab, you do need to let it dry out.
Andrew Camacho said:
....Should I paint my cement floor with oil or latex paint sealer. I was going to go with a heavey duty oil boat paint, but some one told me latex was the better way to go because cement is waterbased and the paint will bond better. I thought the opposite, exactly because cement is water based and so is a shower.
Also how qiuckly can I paint my cement floof after. Curing time goes on forever and 28 days is some sort of cement standard. I was going to give it a couple of days, but I know feal I should wait at least one weak, 7 days. Any thoughts from this helpfull gang here?.
 

Alternety

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How about just using a good concrete sealer instead of paint. That is what I am doing. It waterproofs the concrete surface. When pouring the shower I would not trowel it smooth but leave a bit of "tooth" to help minimize slipperyness.
 

Andrew Camacho

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My plan is/was to paint the entier shower and add a faux venitian look to it, like its been there for ever. 'm moving in the first of Oct. Thats the rush. Is polurithane a latex or an oil based paint?
 

Prashster

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Neither. It's an elastic polymer. It's plastic. You can have waterbased pu or oilbased. Depends on what you're sealing underneath. If you use a waterbased sealer (yr whole project still sounds kinda batty - seems like as much work to just barrier/tile it, but who M I to judge?) then use a water poly.

Know that polyurethanes are supposed to be replenished every so often. Since yr hitting it hard w water and soap EVERY DAY (I hope you shower every day) it's gonna need a new coat every coupla months.

If yr hellbent on doing this, CONSIDER etching w/ Muriatic Acid before sealing. It'll increase the porosity to allow better sealer penetration. BEFORE DOING THAT, GET A THOROUGH EDUCATION ON THE USE OF ACID AND PROPER DILUTION, APPLICATION, VENTILATION, RESPIRATION REQUIREMENTS. I AM NOT GIVING YOU ADVICE TO USE ACID - JUST SAYING TO LOOK INTO IT.
 

Andrew Camacho

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Thanks guys! I've got a new problem; the drain is running realy slow and when i tried to clean it with that thing, the name escapes me now (The TOOL), it got worse! I'll talk with the building manager monday and see if I can find a clean out down stairs. Plumming is such an adventure! I'm trying to use what I have and not what I'd like to have. And wacky is good if it works and costs less. Thanks again everyone for your comments.
Andrew
 

Geniescience

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let new concrete AGE first. Do not try anything fancy.

Andrew

anything REAL temporary, will be good until your concrete slab floor is many weeks old. Fresh stuff is still offgassing and full of loose humidity that seeps out every day. So it's a big gamble if you try to get anything to stick to it when it is fresh. 28 days is the industry reference standard, since it is more than 95% cured by then.

You are moving in on October 1st. How old will the slab be on October 1st?

david
 
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