water pump constantly running

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calhoon

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Have an issue where my submersible water pump is constantly running.
By constantly I mean that two toilet flushes will set the thing off.
Sometimes I haven't used water for quite a while yet the pressure tank
will start filling up (it's a bladder style: Well X-trol Wx-203). It
seems like I'm always hearing that pump going.

I should mention that before this I had a problem with the water in my upstairs shower shutting completely off. You'd be taking a shower, a nice full steam, and suddenly the pressure would drop to zero, a little dribble at most. After much investigation discovered that the tube that goes to the pressure switch was three-quaters of the way blocked with red crap. Replaced the pressure switch and the pressure gauge and set the thing to kick in at 30 psi and cut out at 50 psi, which it does. However, sometimes right after it cuts out I will loose 5 psi, sometimes 8 psi right off the bat.

Sometimes I notice that the toilets will gurgle long after you flush them and I wonder if that was a clue. It's not a hard and fast rule, just something that happens from time to time.

It seems to me that I have a leak somewhere, but where? How could I trouble-shoot?
 

Cass

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Check the pressure in your bladder tank with the pump off and no water pressure in the lines. It should be (28#) 2# lower than the set cut in pressure which you stated was 30#.

Be sure that the water pressure gauge is working and accurate. If it has been in for a long and your not sure time just replace it.
 

Speedbump

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You should have a main valve after the tank. Shut it off. If the motor continues to come on and off still. The leak must be between the valve and the pump. If it does stop, the leak in in the home somewhere?

bob...
 

calhoon

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running pump

Okay. tonight I will turn off the main water after the pump for several hours and see if I get any drop in pressure what-so-ever.

As for the cut in pressure, I have it set currently for 29. Was thorough and made sure that all the water was drained first. Also, I replaced the gauge at the same time I replaced the switch.
 

calhoon

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Turned off the main water for four hours. The needle didn't budge in that entire time.

Does that definitively say that the pressure leak is occuring inside the house, or could it still somehow be caused by the water pressure tank?

If it is coming inside the house, how would I go about tracking it down? I did look for water leaks and haven't found anything in the entire house. Does that narrow it down to toilets? How would you go about trouble-shooting those?

Lastly, the pressure range is 30 to 50, specified by my tank and by the switch. Can I expand that range some, say 30 to 60?
 

Jadnashua

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You might overextend the bladder in the tank and shorten its life if you do that...

Turn off the shutoffs on the toilets and see what happens. There could be a leak under the slab (if pipes run there) and you'd never see it. Could be significant.

You can determine how many gallons you can actually store in the tank if you check out the specs. It is not the size of the tank, since you have a good part of it filled up with air.
 

Mikey

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You've definitely isolated the leak to be downstream of the valve. I had the same problem a while back, and eventually found a hot-water leak under the slab. Here's a suggested approach:

1) Turn off hot water. If pressure holds, the leak is on the hot-water side.

2) Turn off toilets at the stop valve. If pressure holds, the leak is at the toilet(s).

3) If a toilet is suspect, put some food coloring in the tank and see if it shows up in the bowl.

4) If you can't isolate it to a fixture, then you've probably got a leak under the slab -- time to call a leak locating outfit. I used Sleuth in Tampa, and was very impressed. They can pinpoint a leak to within a few inches. The bad news, of course, is the odds are good you will continue to develop new leaks, so the normal course of action in my neck of the woods is to re-plumb the house overhead.
 
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Speedbump

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You can increase the pressure to 40 60 if your run the air in the tank up to 38 psi. after turning off the pump and letting all the water out of the system. That will protect the bladder.

bob...
 

calhoon

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Ran a series of tests and have concluded that there is no leaks in the system. Didn't run water with all the toilets off for a period of four hours and the needle didn't budge. One by one I ran scenarios with a single toilet on at a time. In each instance the psi held.

So, it's not the toilets, not the pump (needle doesn't budge when you turn off the main for a period of four hours), and the system in general holds so long as you use no water. Yet, that pump runs at a drop of the hat.
 

Speedbump

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You said two toilet flushes would make the pump come on. This is normal. That tank only holds 9.9 gallons with the 30/50 setting.

Turn on water until the pump comes on. Turn off the water, let the pump build up to 50. Open a faucet where you can fill a 5 gallon bucket. See how many gallons come out before the pump comes on. This will tell you if the tank is good or bad.

You have already ruled out a leak. If you get the 9.9 gallons or close to it, you need a Cycle Stop Valve.

Ok Guys; I know, I know.
 

calhoon

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Sorry, new home owner and all that. Sure sounded like it was running a lot but perhaps I became hypersensitive to the pump after I replaced the switch.

Did what you recommended and sure enough got about 9.9 gallons out of the utility tub faucet.

So, eventhough the tank says 32 gallons it only renders a measely 9.9 gallons of water, huh?
 

Speedbump

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That's correct.

That is why I don't like using the absolute volume of a tank to define it's size.

Bladder tanks were designed to replace the galvanized tank which has a lot of water in it that was never used. The bladder tank that is equivalent to a galvanized tank gives the same number of gallons per cycle that the old galvanized tank did but was physically smaller.

bob...
 
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