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# Thread: 1300 foot pe water pipe

1. ## 1300 foot pe water pipe

Hi, I am going to develop a spring on my property. I have to run PE black water pipe approximately 1300 feet. (220 foot up from the spring area to the cistern at the house. I am going to install a submersible pump in the catchment cistern near the spring. My quesiton is water diameter pipe should i use? I was planning on 1". Amount of flow capacity is not an issue. High pressure/low flow.

if 3/4" works, I will use it. I am not sure if 3/4" pipe would cause too much restriction causing the pump to need to be bigger. 1" is not that much more expensive.

2. At 5GPM flow you have about 260' of head from friction loss in the 1" plus the 220' of rise. Thats about 200 psi at the pump if my blunt pencil late night calcs are correct. I believe that applies to .75" pipe at about 2 GPM also. I dont have a chart for lower flow rates in the 1'', but it seems like a stretch. You might step sizes up the hill from 1.25" to 1 and then to .75". Choose carefully all parts of this system or you may have just a dribble at the top - its a long run.

I bet there is an engineer type out there that can refine this to 3 or 4 decimal points for you. How many GPM do you need at the top of the hill? I hope you are not running wire down 1300' from the house to the pump - thats a far bigger and costlier equation than the pipe.

3. If you have smaller pipe, you don't need a larger pump, you need a smaller pump.

From a table in an old Colt Industries Pump Division Hydraulic Handbook:

3/4" pipe (0.824" inside diameter) will have 2.50 ft of head loss per 100 ft at 3 GPM, or 32.5 ft in 1300 ft. At 6 GPM it will have 169 ft of loss.

A 1" pipe (1.049 diameter) will have 2.68 ft/100 ft at 6 GPM (35 ft of loss) and 89 ft at 10 GPM.

Check the poly pipe diameter and consider the loss in the fittings.

You will need 160 psi pipe for the firt 100 ft of rise.

I would go with the smallest pump available to meet your flow needs to minimize the require wire size (voltage drop).

4. Sounds better.... So that is 220 feet rise + 13 friction loss X .43 psi per foot, or about 108 psi [?] at the pump for 1" at 6 gpm. I might step sizes and pressure rating up the hill, trying to buy 600' rolls of pipe. Regarding the friction loss at the couplings..... I know the big sizes of PE are butted and heat welded, has anyone used O.D. compression unions succesfully on small PE?

Does anyone have a link to an easy to use pipe sizing chart for each type of material?

5. ## Poly Pipe

Here is a link to pressure losses in polyethylene pipe. It also give numbers for losses in fittings. The units are in psi rather than ft of head so I have used psi in the calculation.

http://www.endot.com/support/install...lene%20pipe%22

The losses are not as high as in my handbook for steel pipe.

For 1300 ft of 1" pipe at 6 GPM, the pressure drip is given as 0.84 PSI per 100 ft, so it would be 11 psi with a few couplings and adapters.

Add 95 psi for the elevation difference and you have 106 psi. You would need the additional strength for the first 20 ft of so of elevation, or more or less depending on how much risk you want to take.

You might want to consider aluminum wire. It will take a larger size but the cost will be less than for copper.

6. Originally Posted by tickridgescott
Hi, I am going to develop a spring on my property. I have to run PE black water pipe approximately 1300 feet. (220 foot up from the spring area to the cistern at the house. I am going to install a submersible pump in the catchment cistern near the spring. My question is water diameter pipe should i use? I was planning on 1". Amount of flow capacity is not an issue. High pressure/low flow.

if 3/4" works, I will use it. I am not sure if 3/4" pipe would cause too much restriction causing the pump to need to be bigger. 1" is not that much more expensive.
I suggest 1.25" 160 or 200 PSI rated PE (for the whole run) and SS insert fittings and double opposed SS hose clamps. Personally I'd use 200 psi and keep it off rocks and rocks off it. I've used Endot's Endopure for years in wells to 500' deep. Here 100, 200, 300 an 500' rolls are found at most pump/plumbing supply houses but longer is special order. I'd use 2 500 and a 300' rolls with insert SS fittings and be done with it.

What pump and power cable is a much larger concern.

7. Thanks for all the replies. I am getting closer to installing all of this. I ended up purchasing 1" 200 PSI rated 1000 foot roll. And a 500 foot roll to make sure i have enough.

I have a question regarding check valves. The Gould's technical rep tells me I need to install check valves every 200 feet of vertical rise. I am not certain of the exact rise, but i do know it is between 190 and 220 feet difference. (I will be pumping UPWARD).

QUESTION: What is the reason for check valves being required every 200 feet of vertical rise? In my situation I am 'right on the edge' of needing one (according to the 200 foot rule). If anyone could comment on whether I need a check valve I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Scott

8. They tell every one that but here we don't do that and some of our wells are 500' with the average at roughly 250'. You don't need but the one in/on the pump's outlet; especially with only 220' of rise.

And water hammer isn't a problem if you have a capitive air pressure tank (which all pressure tanks are...); it's a big water hammer arrestor.

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