Another Basement Bathroom addition

I have another Basement Bathroom inquiry for this forum. My wife and I have started on a Basement renovation which includes the addition of a full bath and Laundry room. Our Basement did not have any DWV roughed in when it was built 17 years ago. Unfortunately the Waste line leaving the house is above the slab of the basement floor requiring an ejector pump.

Since we have been planning this for a number of years, I have already purchased some of the needed fixtures to complete this installation. I have the sewage ejector basin and 1/2hp Flotec pump. Now I am ready to get this installed into the floor, but wanted to make sure that I have everything figured out before I begin cutting the floor.

Our main concern is the vent for the Basin. In the basement I don't have access to any vent lines. What I do have access to is a 1.5†Vent in an upstairs wall that is currently being used for the drain on the washing machine. Once the Laundry room is moved down to the basement, that drain and vent will not be used any longer. The drain ran directly from the Washing machine to the 3" drain leading out of the house. This 1.5" drain is the last connection on the 3†drain before it leaves the house. There is nothing below it. What I would like to be able to do is cap the drain line and use the vent for the dedicated Ejector Vent. I know that it is suppose to be 2â€, but there is nothing available. Since this vent is connected to nothing else until it reaches the 3†stack at the roof, would it work? I know that it won't pass code, BUT..

I have attached an Image of what I plan on doing. This image is to scale. I need some help with my drain line and fittings as far as what is allowed, and what isn't. I don't have any experience with the plumbing code and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve Vincent

Nice diagram. What software did you use?
I'll let the pros opine about venting 2" into 1.5" (my guess is that it will work, though. I wonder if you can 'supplement' it with a studor vent.)

As far as the drains go, if you're going to be doing the demo yrself and want to minimize the work, I'd run the sink drain above ground and enter the basin via a wye in the toilet's vent. The 'wet section' of the vent will only be a few inches. I did that and my inspector passed it.

Also, I'd aim the shower's ptrap 'southwest' instead of going due west and then 45ing it. This will eliminate one bend and allow you to make the sweep into the main line double wye a little gentler. I'm just picking nits here, though.

If yr planning to do the demo and rough work yrself, drop me a private line. I have oodles of advice on it - all to be taken with a grain of salt, of course, but I can give you a good diyer's perspective on the level of difficulty, lessons learned, and the costs/benefits vis-a-vis having it professionally done.

Also, one last thing: Are you married to your flotec pump? If you search the forum here, you'll find a lot of negative opinions about them. A better choice seems to be Zoeller. I read those postings too late after I had already committed to my flotec. I don't have any problems after 6 months, but am waiting with bated breath...

For fittings, use wyes and 45s instead of sanitary tees wherever possible.
Purple Prime all joints b4 cementing.
I'd cut the vent and discharge lines above the ejector pump and reconnect them with hubless metal-sleeve couplers. This'll make it easy to get into the thing if you have to do maintenance.
Get a good check valve. Solid pvc or iron, full flowthrough. (not the wimpy rubber one that would come in a flotec simplex kit). Your diag doesn't show where the discharge runs and how the check and gate valve are run.

Thanks for the reply.

I copied & pasted this image from an Auto CAD drawing that I have of my house.

The 2 line that I show going from the sink past the Washing Machine, and into a P trap in the floor will be inside of the wall. Because of the size of the PVC, that will probably have to be 1 ½ Pipe. If I do that then the only cutting that I have to do in the floor is within a 3 radius of the hole for the basin.

I will make a change to the drawing at the drain for the tub. I can see where it would be easier to remove the bend at the trap.

I am going to do this entire job by myself along with some help from a couple of teenage boys that live under my roof. I am in no big hurry, and I would enjoy the learning experience.

I am not married to the Flotec pump, and I have read the recent post about the comparison with the Zoeller. Unfortunately, like you, I have already purchased this pump and can't return it. If I can make it last a few years, it can then become someone else's problem.

I haven't drawn the waste line or vent for the Ejector yet. I know where the waste line is going to have to go, but the decision hasn't been made regarding the vent line. I am hoping that I can use the existing vent. I have looked at the cost of the Studor, but before I bought, I wanted to see if the Code in Kentucky would even allow.

I can definitely use all of the help that I can get, so I will be dropping you a private message. I have lots of photos of the area where this will be going. So if my drawing doesn't explain something, I am sure that I have several photos of the same.

Thanks again.

Steve Vincent

I think RUGGED (a pro on this forum) has a lot of knowledge about Kentucky code.

You really want the washing machine line to be 2" if you want it to work well, and pass code. You might want to consider making that wall out of 2x6's.

If you do the wall out of 2x6's, you can space them 24"OC instead of 16", so the net cost isn't a whole heck of a lot more.

Thanks for the replies.

Looking at my drawing, can any of you see any problem with my use of the double Wye at the Ejector pump?

Should I use a drop of 1/4" per foot from the Toilet Flange to the Ejector?

What about the Trap that I was planning on placing where the Washing Machine and Sink would drop below the floor?

Is that a good idea?

If used, does this Trap need a Vent as well?

I guess I need to make sure that I have plenty of clean outs available as well?

Thanks for all of your help.

Steve (Diesel) Vincent

pipes

That trap would be a bad idea. You cannot, and don't want to, connect the water heater T&P discharge into the A/C condensate line.

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"Can any of you see any problem with my use of the double Wye at the Ejector pump?"
I think it's ok (ask pro for sure). But, if it were me, I'd drain the sink/laundry line above ground into the toilet vent. I'd also drill another entry hole in the 'east' side of the basin and drain the tub directly into it. No wye at all, and makes yr concrete holes a little smaller and neater.

"Should I use a drop of 1/4" per foot from the Toilet Flange to the Ejector?"
No (verif w/ pro). The slope begins from the closet bend. The flange should drop straight down into the closet bend (either directly or via a pipe stub, then do a closet bend (or 90el) and then slope 1/4" to drain. I believe the purpose of closet bends are to allow tighter turns than a 90. IMHO, if you have the room, do a 4" flange to a 4" 90 deg el, and make the trunk 4" to the basin.

"What about the Trap that I was planning on placing where the Washing Machine and Sink would drop below the floor? If used, does this Trap need a Vent as well?"

Not sure what you mean. The laundry machine requires a trap and a vent. The laundry mach trap shouldn't be in the path of the sink drain.

That portion of the drawing (including the Water Heater, Heat Pump Air Handler, and copper drain line) is existing Fixtures.

About Five years ago, when I added my second Heat Pump into the house, and since I didn't have an ejector basin installed, I had to decide what to do with the condensate line. At that time, I decided that the easiest way for me to discharge the condensate and make use of that water was to connect to my existing Water Heater overflow Line which exited the house near that location. I know it isn't code, but I needed the second heat pump badly.

I have been collecting that condensate outside of the house since then, and using it for Watering flowers and trees. Works really well, and is a good use for that water instead of sending it down the drain.

Steve (Diesel) Vincent

This weekend I finally got around to cutting the basement floor, and installing my ejector basin into my pit. turns out that cutting the floor was the easy part. Dealing with the carbon monoxide from the saw was another problem.

After the floor was cut, I had to figure out how to remove the concrete without causing to much damage to the remaining floor. That also was not that big of a deal. Now finding out that the water table was about 5 inches under the concrete turned out to be the biggest problem.

Water kept filling back into my hole before I could remove a couple of shovels of clay. After burning up my shop vac, I ended up sinking a bilge pump into hole to keep in drained long enough to dig.

While completing this project I managed to take some snap shots that I have compiled into a photo album. If interested you can find these photos at the link below.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/552744474mdJgPD

Any thoughts or suggestions are always greatly appreciated. I want to do this right the first time, so I have no problem taking constructive criticism.

If you look at the plan that I started this thread with you should be able to see what I am trying to accomplish.

Steve Vincent

Just wondering how you're going to deal with all the water in the end. It will probably do its best to seep up through the new joints in the slab.

Also, I have a nagging feeling that I read somewhere that the washing machine trap couldn't be under concrete. My nagging feelings are not always correct, though.

The water is at it's highest point in the picture above. With the previous moisture barrier I never had signs of water. Before I pour concrete I will be adding a little more rock and then a vapor barrier. The existing floor was 5" thick. The new pour will be atleast that thick. Probably more like 6".

The trap that you see in the floor will not be used for the Washing Machine. My wife has informed me that the Dryer door opens from the left to the right. So she would like to have the Dryer on the right hand side of the Washing Machine. I will be adding a trap for the washing machine 18" off of the floor near the other exposed 2" Wye in the same wall.

Would it hurt to run a line from the sink to the mentioned trap in the Washing machine wall that I have under the floor? So I would be going from the 1.5" trap at the sink through the wall, over above this trap, and then vertical to the trap in the floor? This would leave room in the wall between the washing machine trap and the sink drain line for a Dryer vent that I need to run outside.

Thanks for all of your help and Ideas.

Steve (Diesel) Vincent

I finally got a little time to pour some concrete this week. Now I can finish the bathroom walls, and get some vent & Drains completed.

I have made my connections to the existing vents in the first floor of the house. I have a separate vent line from the ejector pump, and another for all of the fixtures for the basement.

I will keep updating as I progress.

Thanks for everyone's help.
Steve (Diesel) Vincent